[dnssd] multicast over wireless links

RJ Atkinson <rja.lists@gmail.com> Thu, 24 July 2014 18:24 UTC

Return-Path: <rja.lists@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC5701B27B5 for <dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2XlNC7APMakZ for <dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:24:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB11F1A00DC for <dnssd@ietf.org>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wi0-f177.google.com with SMTP id ho1so4438497wib.10 for <dnssd@ietf.org>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:24:03 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :to:mime-version; bh=7ok6oz17PJxg1BSrxAGvaryZ/K8CWeuoWw9FvnGX27A=; b=0PZVAFwIDtI2r6fmH5j1eB+Bz7l59lU7QTGgtkV/CJvuonMas37y2OOQWAgdmJzfVP KXs0VfHjr8Zyd0K2hFTeL3Ub2pa4KTN5IAbw18KU7boc37AlPqvp43PwRlXApTAUFkwL G3reYWqzYKXpyHQiWdkNU9KX43twpf012EKe55EHjZyRcbSHQBz/HyMxQJoquOYPZbb3 AoMV6OEvo+6421Lmitz+W8Zwbq2leGbvJ9fF1Ev2xQkCh4U+1CVz+DDOAqWc1BgSvW3Y IyiwA7H3Ybwhk/qxNmrY8g6NGlDMzLjiJ7jKZ24zXj1CEOTGkdkYhoP6JFRlLVDOtQeq r4Kg==
X-Received: by 10.194.5.103 with SMTP id r7mr14955697wjr.41.1406226242990; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dhcp-93fd.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-93fd.meeting.ietf.org. [31.133.147.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id di7sm17935846wjb.34.2014.07.24.11.24.01 for <dnssd@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: RJ Atkinson <rja.lists@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:23:59 -0400
Message-Id: <421C934C-F0CB-4FBF-83ED-04A48526D5F2@gmail.com>
To: dnssd@ietf.org
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283)
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283)
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnssd/2QcJHKm2qoSSvg7h0YG3-Kl8uTk
Subject: [dnssd] multicast over wireless links
X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." <dnssd.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnssd>, <mailto:dnssd-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dnssd/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnssd@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnssd-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnssd>, <mailto:dnssd-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:24:12 -0000

Ted,

  When IP multicasting originated, wired Ethernet was a shared
medium using CSMA/CD.  A single IP/Ethernet frame would reach
all nodes on that IP subnet.  I still remember vampire taps 
and the big yellow Coax cable in my office from back then.

  In the 1990s, switched Ethernet became commonplace and 
(as deployed) the wire to the desktop was not a shared
medium, but instead was a solo link back to the Ethernet
switch.  This meant that the IP/Ethernet frame did not 
automatically get seen by all nodes on that Ethernet 
(bridged) link.  The IETF didn't drop IP multicasting, 
or discourage use of IP multicasting.  Instead, Ethernet 
switch vendors made various optimisations inside their 
Ethernet switch products (e.g. IGMP snooping) to make 
IP multicasting work well over wired switched Ethernet.  
IETF folks were involved in helping the Ethernet vendors 
understand some implementation options for those optimisations 
in those Ethernet products.

  The situation today with 802.11 is entirely analogous
to that previous situation with wired Ethernet moving
from shared CSMA/CD to switched dedicated links, and the
IETF community should have the same response -- don't drop 
the use of IP multicasting, don't discourage use of 
IP multicasting -- instead engage with others so that a 
link-specific optimisation can be put into use only for 
-- and only within -- those link-specific vendor devices 
(e.g., wireless access point, 802.11 radio, or whatever 
term one prefers).

Yours,

Ran