Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size
Martin J. Dürst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Thu, 07 June 2018 12:40 UTC
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To: bert hubert <bert.hubert@powerdns.com>,
Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>
Cc: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org>, DoH WG <doh@ietf.org>
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J._D=c3=bcrst?= <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 21:40:45 +0900
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Subject: Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size
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Hello Bert, On 2018/06/07 18:36, bert hubert wrote: > On Thu, Jun 07, 2018 at 09:19:06AM +0200, Patrick McManus wrote: >> it seems possible that this is a property of the default media type not of >> DoH. e.g. a negotiated json response wouldn't have this kind of limitation. >> Does that make sense? > > Firstly, it is not a media type limitation. It is a question of if we want > to extend DNS into a territory where it has never been before. The moment > 100 kilobyte DNS answers become possible, we need to redo a ton of software. > This is true if the end transport is JSON or a DNS message wrapped into an > HTTP response. I think I agree with Patrick that it is a media type limitation. I might be wrong, but I don't see a way for a JSON-based format to be as efficient as the binary DNS format(s). Even if it were possible, a JSON format could contain lots of additional spaces without changing the meaning of the message at all. So for a JSON message, there's not limit of 64K on the actual message length. But there is (or should be) an *indirect* limitation that can roughly be expressed as "a JSON message, when converted to a binary format, has to fit into 64K". > Before typing a lot more characters on this, can I ask who is actually > arguing that we need bigger DNS messages? Who is hurting under the 65536 > byte constraint? DNS over HTTPS implies that we have access to HTTPS. This > protocol supports messages as large as you want. > > The one reason you might like DNS to be able to do something new and large > is because you might have no alternate way of getting large data. > > So I ask, who wants to fundamentally extend the DNS protocol with messages > of a size never seen or supported? Who is the customer? Not me, at least not for now. Regards, Martin.
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was ... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Puneet Sood
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ted Lemon
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ted Lemon
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ted Lemon
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Mateusz Jończyk
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Sara Dickinson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Daniel Stenberg
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Sara Dickinson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Daniel Stenberg
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ben Schwartz
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ben Schwartz
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Petr Špaček
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Tom Pusateri
- [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Petr Špaček
- Re: [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Tony Finch
- Re: [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Hewitt, Rory
- Re: [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Benno Overeinder
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... George Michaelson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Tony Finch
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Tony Finch
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Robert Edmonds
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Mateusz Jończyk
- [Doh] AXFR as several messages Re: [Ext] DNS Ca... bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... John Dickinson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Tony Finch
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Martin Thomson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Mark Nottingham
- [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Ólafur Guðmundsson
- [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re: ... Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was ... Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was ... Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and mess... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was ... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was ... bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was ... Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture?... Ray Bellis