Re: [Dots] WGLC on draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06

"Jon Shallow" <supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com> Fri, 08 November 2019 15:43 UTC

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From: "Jon Shallow" <supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com>
To: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "'Valery Smyslov'" <valery@smyslov.net>, <dots@ietf.org>, <dots-chairs@ietf.org>
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 15:43:29 -0000
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Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC on draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
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Hi Med,

See inline.

Regards

Jon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dots [mailto: -dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> Sent: 08 November 2019 14:21
> To: Jon Shallow; 'Valery Smyslov'; dots@ietf.org; dots-chairs@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC on draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> 
> Hi Jon,
> 
> Thank you for the feedback.
> 
> Please see inline.
> 
> Cheers,
> Med
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Jon Shallow [mailto:supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com]
> > Envoyé : vendredi 8 novembre 2019 14:53
> > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; 'Valery Smyslov'; dots@ietf.org; dots-
> > chairs@ietf.org
> > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC on draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> >
> > Hi Med et al,
> >
> > I have gone back over the heartbeat call home and have a couple of
> comments
> >
> > In
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-38#section-
> 4.5..1
> >
> > OLD
> >
> >    Figure 18 shows how to obtain acceptable configuration parameters for
> >    the DOTS server.
> >
> 
> [Med] "for" is used in reference to "acceptable" from the perspective of
the
> server. Sure, the information will be retrieved from the server.

Jon> OK
> 
> 
> > NEW
> >
> >    Figure 18 shows how to obtain acceptable configuration parameters for
> >    the DOTS client.
> >
> > or NEW
> >
> >    Figure 18 shows how to obtain acceptable configuration parameters
from
> >    the DOTS server.
> >
> > With Call Home, the GET Config will still tell the Call Home DOTS Client
> > what are the acceptable values (which will cover keeping any NAT
> bindings
> > "warm"),
> 
> [Med] Yes, and especilay for twekaing heartbeat-interval.
> 
>  and then the Call Home DOTS client can optionally do a PUT for
> > tweaking within the allowed bounds.
> 
> [Med] Not sure to follow you here. Which PUT are you referring to?

Jon> PUT /config to change the current values.

> 
> >
> > As the "saturated" direction will most likely continue to be from the
(Call
> > Home) DOTS server to the (Call Home) DOTS client all the signal draft
> > recovery / continuing mechanisms still stand which the call home draft
> just
> > re-emphasises.
> 
> [Med] There are some diffs: e.g., the Call Home Clint can't initiate a new
> (D)TLS session.

Jon> Agreed.  My DOTS client when configured to be in Call Home mode is not
allowed to initiate any new (D)TLS sessions, but continues to listen on port
4647.

Jon> That said, I have not (yet) implemented the Call Home DOTS server
initiating a new connection if the heartbeats have expired.

~Jon

> 
> >
> > I have not had a chance to separately test this Call Home variant, but
> > everything is using the same code logic at this point as per the signal
> > draft.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dots [mailto:ietf-supjps-dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> ietf-
> > > supjps-mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > > Sent: 07 November 2019 12:16
> > > To: Jon Shallow; 'Valery Smyslov'; dots@ietf.org; dots-chairs@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC on draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> > >
> > > Re-,
> > >
> > > The NEW wording works for me.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Med
> > >
> > > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > > De : Jon Shallow [mailto:supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com]
> > > > Envoyé : jeudi 7 novembre 2019 11:39
> > > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; 'Valery Smyslov'; dots@ietf.org;
> dots-
> > > > chairs@ietf.org
> > > > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC on draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> > > >
> > > > Hi Med,
> > > >
> > > > Happy Eyeballs worked fine with me with the Call Home DOTS server
> > > > initiating
> > > > the DTLS and TLS sessions.
> > > >
> > > > Heartbeats work, but I have not tested them under stress / loss
> > conditions.
> > > > I will try to get that tested tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > In terms of the text I mis-read, perhaps it could be partially
> > re-written
> > > >
> > > > OLD
> > > >
> > > > " If TCP is used, the Call Home DOTS server begins by initiating a
> > > > TCP connection to the Call Home DOTS client.  Using this TCP
> > > > connection, the Call Home DOTS server initiates a TLS connection
> > > > to the Call Home DOTS client."
> > > >
> > > > NEW
> > > >
> > > > " If TCP is used, the Call Home DOTS server begins by initiating a
> > > > TCP connection to the Call Home DOTS client.  Once connected,  the
> Call
> > > > Home
> > > > DOTS server continues to initiate a TLS connection
> > > > to the Call Home DOTS client."
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Jon
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > > > > Sent: 07 November 2019 09:34
> > > > > To: Jon Shallow; 'Valery Smyslov'; dots@ietf.org; dots-
> > chairs@ietf.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC on draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> > > > >
> > > > > Re-,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you, Jon.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, I don't see any issue about HE and HBs for the call home. I
> > assume
> > > > that
> > > > > no problem was encountered to implement it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Med
> > > > > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > > > > De : Jon Shallow [mailto:supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com]
> > > > > > Envoyé : jeudi 7 novembre 2019 09:58
> > > > > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; 'Valery Smyslov'; dots@ietf.org;
> > > dots-
> > > > > > chairs@ietf.org
> > > > > > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC on draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Med,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See inline.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jon
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > > > > > > Sent: 07 November 2019 07:12
> > > > > > > To: Jon Shallow; 'Valery Smyslov'; dots@ietf.org; dots-
> > > > chairs@ietf.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC on
draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Jon,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you for sharing this cool news.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please see inline.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > Med
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > > > > > > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Jon
> > Shallow
> > > > > > > > Envoyé : mercredi 6 novembre 2019 18:13
> > > > > > > > À : 'Valery Smyslov'; dots@ietf.org; dots-chairs@ietf.org
> > > > > > > > Objet : Re: [Dots] WGLC on
draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have done a preliminary working implementation of DOTS
Call-
> > > Home
> > > > > -
> > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > is still some little used functionality to finish off.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *** Issue # 1 - TCP TLS sessions
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-
> > > > > > 06#section-
> > > > > > > 3..1
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > " If UDP transport is used, the Call Home DOTS server begins
by
> > > > > > > > initiating a DTLS connection to the Call Home DOTS client."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This works as expected where the UDP + DTLS layer roles are
> > > > switched.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > " If TCP is used, the Call Home DOTS server begins by
> > initiating
> > a
> > > > > > > > TCP connection to the Call Home DOTS client.  Using this TCP
> > > > > > > > connection, the Call Home DOTS server initiates a TLS
> > connection
> > > > > > > > to the Call Home DOTS client."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With the current libcoap implementation, I am unable to
create
> > a
> > > > CoAP
> > > > > > > > session using TLS on an existing TCP connection - so the
DOTS
> > > > Client
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > unable to accept an incoming TCP session and then initiate
TLS
> > > > > > integrated
> > > > > > > > with the CoAP session.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Med] Why the client would initiate the TLS session? Do you
want
> > to
> > > > test
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > RFC8071-like approach?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jon> Yesterday was one of those days - word blindness
translated
> > "the
> > > > > Call
> > > > > > Home DOTS server initiates a TLS connection to the Call Home
DOTS
> > > > > client."
> > > > > > as a separate action to  "the Call Home DOTS client initiates a
TLS
> > > > > > connection to the Call Home DOTS server.".  The actual text is
> > correct.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  I agree that RFC8071 only switches the TCP layer
> > > > > > > > roles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Med] Yes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However all works if the TCP + TLS layer roles are switched -
in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same way that UDP + DTLS work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Med] Great. We went for this approach because we preserve the
> > > same
> > > > > role
> > > > > > > for both DTLS and TLS:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >               +-----------+
+-----------+
> > > > > > >               | Call Home |                        | Call Home
|
> > > > > > >               |    DOTS   |                        |    DOTS
|
> > > > > > >               |   server  |                        |   client
|
> > > > > > >               +-----+-----+
+-----+-----+
> > > > > > >               (D)TLS client                        (D)TLS
server
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Enhancing the libcoap code to support only the TCP layer
being
> > > > > switched
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > doable - but have no idea as to whether other CoAP
> > > implementations
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > > handle this specific requirement.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Med] Do we really need to do that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jon> No.  It was my mis-reading of the text that caused this
> > confusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *** Not (yet) Implemented #1 - Redirected Signalling
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-
> > > > > > 06#section-
> > > > > > > > 3.2.
> > > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I do not see any issues here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *** Not (yet) implemented #2 - New Conflict Cause 4
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I do not see any issues here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *** Not (yet) Implemented #3 - Address sharing
considerations
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-
> > > > > > 06#section-
> > > > > > > > 3.3.
> > > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I do not see any issues here - just need to interface with
the
> > > > > > translators
> > > > > > > > to get the appropriate information.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jon
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Dots [mailto:ietf-supjps-dots-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > > > Valery
> > > > > > > > > Smyslov
> > > > > > > > > Sent: 23 October 2019 08:36
> > > > > > > > > To: dots@ietf.org
> > > > > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [Dots] WGLC on
draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-06
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > this message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for
> > > > > > > > draft-ietf-dots-signal-
> > > > > > > > > call-home-06.
> > > > > > > > > The version to be reviewed is here:
> > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-dots-
> > > > > > > > > signal-call-home-06.txt
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The WGLC will last for two weeks and will end on November
> the
> > > > 7th.
> > > > > > > > > Please send your comments to the list before this date.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > Frank & Valery.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Dots mailing list
> > > > > > > > > Dots@ietf.org
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> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > Dots mailing list
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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