[E-impact] Re: Looking for examples of how standards or models allocate responsibility for "shared" infrastructure when designing greener web applications
Chris Adams <chris@greenweb.org> Fri, 18 July 2025 07:26 UTC
Return-Path: <chris@greenweb.org>
X-Original-To: e-impact@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: e-impact@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311514580331 for <e-impact@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Jul 2025 00:26:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=greenweb.org
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RzM3J1i71ObI for <e-impact@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Jul 2025 00:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ej1-x633.google.com (mail-ej1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::633]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92DBC4580321 for <e-impact@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Jul 2025 00:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ej1-x633.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-ae9c2754a00so299892066b.2 for <e-impact@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Jul 2025 00:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=greenweb.org; s=google; t=1752823575; x=1753428375; darn=ietf.org; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JZp1In+YxpIJiumr/Su+1bB1sLcCCPnSG9pm5LfUzZY=; b=e/EcqUUqHVwWqp8JuNi9FyYMe0Ree+Iw5BDj/0R09U4C31UfKGDs71qtSGigk/cnqS occmgTrXzaYH3Dph6erdah+lGRaTRgZZPt5FRhmD/bCSf2yGvVxYpIWuxzAlEy9rfYPv H737/HWbmpDlCPpJSgQOw/nhxVp8sufP3k9IzWh/SUxuFjNJdVuLi007vRZJBPA005wP 1C/8XuVUxQq9is8afQE+4Hvhn3InXz8ajjLc3Ns/RMw94MMRmmJOpgEJ7r4utHM0UvvI AWEmDUYoRzNVnohOYFi9cH/URLHiekWvpNKiG1XKVEK+JQfxPdP9/TKuO3xbCg9oNvoW jjhA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1752823575; x=1753428375; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JZp1In+YxpIJiumr/Su+1bB1sLcCCPnSG9pm5LfUzZY=; b=SN+1W5M+wBeIZWDCpl/Nmqobl3kegvvEueJl3XjgOfuWSGpT2+cHqnh7l2vNKgKShz W9B8ea8ykFIPsUOgZ0Eg81JMHRpnxlHP0v9BsWqQbwZ1Sg10pbRnKBhtZ9/oWDDG0wCl UOVIw6d8K1b6gY/i6o4L6GmbcVHDbWw/EXb/BRifCQ+jyMLuND6o1pHH7vAmHyz07/p2 9AJUlZuCc7VBBDlbTz+o5oQuhbCPsTm/3Dra2YpmrrWNgzVWnxnKY8LIhWpcudVi8G29 sDHwhR1RS/YTevkqCjvlGBNzyDbCFjna4xjsnCArF9W9cbhF0ItIujtRL45pY7HuUdoy eFsw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwRtjAJgB5KjQtsDXZ5k/A/YNxzayKyQ9+TRAwfnBSZ/X0sjZb1 xEQhHDISc49BjfLg0MFVLc++YfIrHjyXR3cAyA1JmAQHpcTHF+mMmL0NdNTLxHC5FN8=
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncslbogve6bbNjjKzAPWpzUliQljO2J8zS2zpEQVpPF/MWPNyPdOTqioexQCc37 z4e0Xjhp+7TsLVBqqt4m8nRSDwd121bcJs2lzGVJ6pzyakQEWPdIB3g+GFqKsdJuBuTQjjNmXQ5 /BRIfLCOBY8Xjshu75TNx/dmTaxcM19yQyJhfF9Ry1NkAmYYsNrqAlknpTnTbDnizB5FI1HE3Uv sbi/fac5eHS6826oXXuHB8YDy/4pFPY2IQPiIdt3mm9Lj+edMjL9JOTMQZlO/NFgZqJuZ8wY/8t P0WhPKP0cB3peJRaHifAFCqsMWioxUIrO7Rh7XaCmPsipoLKFXlC9eWBdnCmlSH7xyswsIprIv/ 6Ri6PLjrKmf9yHrRZ/HodPs/Eb1B4O/smH4cEK2hV7dIbT/q6DA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFEQ2ianJwN/lcVu3PfJTLOtoqwZszgF1VUD1DuSYp7oeanh9hX8XGHOlMIwc6FSQWkdqg/pw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:2a4e:b0:ae6:d3dc:4f47 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-aec4fc40f93mr435505766b.43.1752823575003; Fri, 18 Jul 2025 00:26:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2001:4091:a244:80cf:45c9:a16f:8029:7328]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-aec6ca7d2dasm69641966b.127.2025.07.18.00.26.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 18 Jul 2025 00:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Adams <chris@greenweb.org>
Message-Id: <E3C03B37-8BA6-4958-9E81-A38EC18F6AF5@greenweb.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E1EA061A-4DEA-46FF-862A-4613DCF73095"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\))
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 09:26:03 +0200
In-Reply-To: <8E6FC115-4216-EF4A-9FC0-643E962CD54C@hxcore.ol>
To: catherine.mulligan@cantab.net
References: <0A6224A5-A8E9-42BC-B668-DE319BBE1DF7@greenweb.org> <8E6FC115-4216-EF4A-9FC0-643E962CD54C@hxcore.ol>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1)
X-MailFrom: chris@greenweb.org
X-Mailman-Rule-Hits: nonmember-moderation
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation
Message-ID-Hash: VWNSUS5NQTIUZWHBTUJ2TRBV6C3RZIJ5
X-Message-ID-Hash: VWNSUS5NQTIUZWHBTUJ2TRBV6C3RZIJ5
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 05:00:36 -0700
CC: E-Impact IETF <e-impact@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [E-impact] Re: Looking for examples of how standards or models allocate responsibility for "shared" infrastructure when designing greener web applications
List-Id: Environmental impacts of the Internet <e-impact.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/e-impact/P4eZEl4xak-yhlKRfo-Nlmb8kio>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/e-impact>
List-Help: <mailto:e-impact-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:e-impact-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:e-impact@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:e-impact-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:e-impact-leave@ietf.org>
Hi Catherine, I think I and others in the list would welcome the links because in many cases, I think there’s prior work we can use in how people allocate responsibility and cost in other fields that would inform convos like this. We’ve spoke about shared utilities like electricity before, and I appreciate you mentioning the blockchain and DLT one as a decent example, because when I’ve looked at it before, a lot of analysis would focus on a single node, without really accounting for the cost of maintaining consensus across a share all the other nodes in the network. I don’t have institution access, but others on this list do, and in the worst case scenario I can contact authors directly. Chris Adams Director of Technology and Policy w: thegreenwebfoundation.org e: chris@greenweb.org t: @mrchrisadams German Office Naunynstrasse 40 10999 Berlin Germany See our contact page for more details https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/contact/ Book a short call with me to discuss something. https://cal.com/mrchrisadams > On 16. Jul 2025, at 18:24, catherine.mulligan@cantab.net wrote: > > Hi Chris - > Interesting question - we built some models for this when I was a fellow at the WEF but around the shared infrastructure of blockchain and DLT. I also wrote a few papers on it for IEEE - happy to share or take a chat offline if you like. > > Effectively, we built models to balance economic, environmental and social impacts (externalities) of digital. It is a complex mix of econ, environmental measurements so a blend of engineering and economics. > > You can drop me a line separately if you think it could be interesting. > > KR, > Cathy >
- [E-impact] Looking for examples of how standards … Chris Adams
- [E-impact] Re: Looking for examples of how standa… Rudolf van der Berg
- [E-impact] Re: Looking for examples of how standa… catherine.mulligan
- [E-impact] Re: Looking for examples of how standa… Rudolf van der Berg
- [E-impact] Re: Looking for examples of how standa… Chris Adams