Re: [Ecrit] New Project Approval Request (PAR) for IEEE 802.21.1 on Emergency Services

["Bernard Aboba" <[e-mail]>]

After some discussion, it appears that the Emergency Services PAR proposal
is once
again being withdrawn, and replaced with a request to form an Executive
Committee
Study Group (ECSG).  Such a study group, if approved, would take issue a
Call for
Interest within IEEE 802, and would be focused on developing a future PAR,
most
probably outside of IEEE 802.21. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Barnes [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:34 PM
To: Bernard Aboba
Cc: 'Donald Eastlake'; 'Romascanu, Dan (Dan)'; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] New Project Approval Request (PAR) for IEEE 802.21.1 on
Emergency Services

[Removed IAB, IESG]

Thanks for bringing this up, Dan.

I share many of Tony's concerns, especially under his first heading. 
The scope of the proposed project is very broad, and overlaps 
significantly with existing standards developed at other SDOs (notably 
ECRIT).  I don't know enough about the IEEE organization to know whether 
the concerns about WG structure are valid, but if some organization is 
chartered with this work, they will need to coordinate very closely with 
  the groups that have been working on this problem or a while.


--Richard


Bernard Aboba wrote:
> I am also in San Francisco, in the IEEE 802.21 meeting.   FWIW, Tony
Jeffree
> (chair of IEEE 802.1) has recently sent in his PAR evaluation, which is
> Enclosed below.  My sense is that the PAR could be headed for "rough 
> waters" in the IEEE 802 EC. 
> 
> ====================================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IEEE 802.1 list HELP only [mailto:[e-mail]] On
> Behalf Of Tony Jeffree
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 7:52 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: [802.1 - 6573] Emergency services PAR
> 
> This list strips out HTML. For more format and size rules, see "Sending"
at
> 802.1 list help: www.ieee802.org/1/email-pages/rvbkx609.html
> -----
> 
> Vivek -
> 
> I have significant problems with this draft PAR, some of which cannot be
> fixed simply by
> changing the wording of the draft.
> 
> Firstly, the PAR reads like a charter for the working group to boil the
> ocean. The problem
> that the PAR offers to solve is large, multi-faceted, complex, and will
> inevitably involve
> expertise across the breadth of 802 technologies, as well as expertise in
> the political
> and regulatory issues surrounding this area, and the ways in which they
> interact with the
> technical solutions. A PAR is a charter to write a single standard; given
> the scope of the
> problem, I don't believe that the solution is going to consist of a single
> document;
> neither do I believe that the set of documents that would eventually be
> needed will be
> possible to write within a single working group. So, in short, the scope
of
> the project is
> way too broad, and is consequently unlikely to be achievable in any
> realistic timeframe. A
> starting point that might have some chance of success would be to develop
an
> architecture
> for emergency services support across 802; a competently written
> architecture can (and
> should) inform the set of documents that are needed in order to address
the
> technology
> issues, and how they relate to each other. However, that is not what this
> draft PAR
> proposes.
> 
> Secondly, the subject matter of the PAR has no relationship to the current
> charter of the
> 802.21 WG. Simply changing the 802.21 charter to make it "fit" is not, in
my
> view, the
> correct solution here; past experience during the development of the
> existing 802.21
> standard gives me no confidence either in 802.21's will to develop truly
> cross-802
> standards or its ability to do so. I believe that the answer to 802.1's
> charter issues is
> simple; if you are done doing work on the subject matter of your original
> standard, then
> it is time you did the right thing and closed down the WG, rather than
> starting unrelated
> work. If there are further topic areas that your members desire to work
on,
> and that are
> not a good fit with your current charter, then the right thing to do is to
> create one or
> more EC study groups to look at those topics and determine, on an 802-wide
> basis, how they
> should be tackled. That way, we stand a better chance of getting
> participation in the
> process by interested parties across 802, and less chance of the activity
> becoming either
> wireline or wireless centric. Once each EC study group has done its job,
the
> EC will get
> to determine where any work that is proposed should best be done, and
> whether there is a
> need to create a new WG to tackle it.
> 
> So, I will oppose the approval of this PAR on Friday. I will also oppose
any
> change to
> 802.21's charter beyond the subject matter of its existing standard and
> approved projects.
> I would, however, support the establishment of an EC study group to study
> what (if
> anything) 802 should do about emergency services, should anyone choose to
> propose forming
> one.
> 
> Regards,
> Tony
> ====================================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald Eastlake [mailto:[e-mail]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 7:11 AM
> To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
> Cc: [e-mail]; The IESG; IAB IAB; Bernard Aboba
> Subject: Re: New Project Approval Request (PAR) for IEEE 802.21.1 on
> Emergency Services
> 
> Yes, I am in San Francisco at the 802 Plenary, although mostly tied up
> in 802.11 (Wi-Fi) chairing 802.11s (Mesh Networking), a position I've
> held for several years but from which I have resigned effective with
> the end of this week. And to the extent I'm not tied up in 802.11,
> I'll be in 802.1, particularly the 802.1 Interworking and DCB task
> forces...
> 
> Thanks,
> Donald
> =============================
>  Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   [phone] (home)
>  155 Beaver Street
>  Milford, MA 01757 USA
>  [e-mail]
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan)<[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>> FYI, the IEEE 802 Plenary meeting which happens this week in San
>> Francisco has a PAR (equivalent with a WG charter) for approval for an
>> Emergency Services project.
>>
>> http://www.ieee802.org/PARs/2009-07/21-09-0027-06-00es-emergency-service
>> s-par-and-5c.doc
>>
>> I think Donald attends the meeting, probably Bernard as well.
>>
>> Dan
>>
> 
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