Re: [Ecrit] Service Classification ... Was RE: Reminder: Virtual Interim Meeting

["Andrea G. Forte" <[e-mail]>]

Hannes,

while I see Lisa's point, I do not think that the solution is to just 
let "others" deal with it or not to deal with it at all. Building one 
comprehensive list of all possible items is not possible and that is why 
we define a way for other people to add new terms (policy-urn draft) to 
the list. Whomever will try to tackle this issue will face the same 
kinds of problems.
Since the IETF is defining protocols and standards for the provisioning 
of location-based services I think it makes sense for the IETF to pave 
the road for defining new labels. Yes, there are many issues involved in 
defining new terms and in deciding how to categorize such terms but 
there is where the "expert" review comes into help. It would be up to 
the expert reviewer(s) as such to be able to mediate and assign the 
correct label to the correct category and perhaps to decide how to 
"import" previously defined terms.

We need something that is consistent among service providers. If not, 
let's not talk service URNs and LoST any more and let's just go back to 
Google local search.

-Andrea

http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~andreaf 
<http://www.cs.columbia.edu/%7Eandreaf/>

On 2/10/2010 3:14 PM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote:
> Hi Henning,
>
> Cullen essentially pointed out that service classification is rather
> complicated and we should consult some other folks outside the IETF
> (since they have tried similar things already and failed).
>
> I then solicited more feedback from Lisa and see provided roughly the
> following response:
>
> ---
>
> In effect, this actually starts to move into W3C Semantic Web territory,
> thus I've cc'ed Mark Nottingham.  You could check out the W3C's pages on
> ontology<http://www.w3.org/standards/semanticweb/ontology>  as well as
> vertical apps<http://www.w3.org/standards/semanticweb/applications>  and
> <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/>  -- it's in the
> vertical apps that specific themed vocabularies get developed.  For
> example, the city of Zaragoza developed an ontology for city services
> <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/Zaragoza/>
>
> I believe many of these vocabularies get developed in vertical industry
> consortia and for specific coordination activities.  For example, the
> classifications of diseases was begun as a scholarly activity in the
> 18th century, and international uniform classification of causes of
> death was adopted in 1853.  Different disease and cause--of-death
> classifications have popped up in different countries and different
> industries, and there have been constant and painful attempts to unify.
> It is a tremendous amount of work to revise the list of causes of death
> and when one does so, statistics change in ways that can't be compared
> forward and backward.    For example --
> see<http://wonder.cdc.gov/mortSQL.html>, where the datasets for two
> very similar disease classification systems are completely disjoint.
>
> Contrasting the classification of diseases to classification of
> services: in the case of diseases, only professionals tend to know about
> disease classification codes.  Thus, uniformity can be encouraged in
> professional training.  New diseases are comparably rare; they are
> studied carefully and there are recognized venues for analysing the type
> and classification of new diseases.   In the case of services, we have a
> free for all where anybody can invent a new service (hey, I'm now
> offering custom knit sweater fit analyses at my yarn studio) and all
> kinds of people are expected to search for them.
>
> I believe the incredible range, scope and dynamism of classifying
> services means that any vocabulary definition mechanism will be awfully
> limited.
>
> ---
>
> I have no good suggestion on how to reflect the feedback in these two
> documents:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-forte-ecrit-service-urn-policy
> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-forte-ecrit-service-classification
>
> Maybe someone else in the working group has or maybe someone in the
> application area can provide us with help.
>
> Ciao
> Hannes
>
>
>
>    
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> Sent: 08 February, 2010 17:54
>> To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
>> Cc: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Reminder: Virtual Interim Meeting
>>
>> Since "shadow boxing" and "tea leaf reading" aren't
>> particularly productive, would the ADs consider revealing
>> those concerns? I'm not sure how else we can have a productive
>> discussion that doesn't just tread over the same old ground.
>>
>> Henning
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2010, at 10:16 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Andrea suggested to also put the revision of the Service URN to the
>>> agenda. He has updated the document but there are concerns from the
>>> side of our Ads. Feedback from the group would also appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thoughts about the addition of the document for discussion to the
>>> agenda?
>>>
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On
>>>> Behalf Of ext Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
>>>> Sent: 08 February, 2010 16:50
>>>> To: [e-mail]
>>>> Subject: [Ecrit] Reminder: Virtual Interim Meeting
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Please keep our virtual interim meeting Thursday Feb. 11
>>>>          
>> 8AM-10AM EST
>>      
>>>> (New York).
>>>>
>>>> We plan to discuss the PSAP callback mechanism, see
>>>>
>>>>          
>> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-schulzrinne-ecrit-psap-callback-01.txt
>>      
>>>> , and to make some progress on the solution front.
>>>>
>>>> The Webex info can be found below.
>>>>
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Hannes&  Marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- WEBEX
>>>>
>>>> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010
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>>>> Number: 209 813 488  Meeting Password: ietf
>>>>
>>>>
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