Re: [Ecrit] draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01.txt was Re:draft-ietf-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01
"DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI)" <md3135@att.com> Thu, 16 June 2011 19:40 UTC
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Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01.txt was Re:draft-ietf-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01
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From: "DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI)" <md3135@att.com>
To: jmpolk@cisco.com
Cc: "DALY, BRIAN K (ATTSI)" <bd2985@att.com>, ecrit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01.txt was Re:draft-ietf-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01
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James, IETF individual, with SDO support would work for us Thanks Martin Martin C. Dolly Sent to you by AT&T... America's Fastest Mobile Broadband Network. Rethink Possible. +1.609.903.3360 ----- Original Message ----- From: James M. Polk <jmpolk@cisco.com> To: DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI); jmpolk@cisco.com <jmpolk@cisco.com> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org <ecrit@ietf.org> Sent: Thu Jun 16 15:35:47 2011 Subject: Re: [Ecrit] draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01.txt was Re:draft-ietf-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01 At 01:43 PM 6/16/2011, DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI) wrote: >James > >Thanks. What is the target for approval? this is no longer a WG item (don't get me started on that without beers in front of us!), the PROTO write-up has already written and is about to go to the IESG as an individual submission on a standards track - so it could be an RFC within 2-3 months. Is that the kind of answer you were looking for (wrt "target for approval")? cheers James >Regards, > >Martin >Martin C. Dolly >Sent to you by AT&T... America's Fastest Mobile >Broadband Network. Rethink Possible. >+1.609.903.3360 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: James M. Polk <jmpolk@cisco.com> >To: DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI); Janet P Gunn ><jgunn6@csc.com>; James M. Polk <jmpolk@cisco.com> >Cc: ecrit@ietf.org <ecrit@ietf.org> >Sent: Thu Jun 16 14:25:22 2011 >Subject: RE: [Ecrit] >draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01.txt >was Re:draft-ietf-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01 > >At 10:22 AM 6/16/2011, DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI) wrote: > >Hello, > > > >I agree that “queuingâ€Â as a method needs to >o > >be mentioned, as it will be used in commercial deployments. > >likely in the US, but not likely in some other >markets. The queuing method is listed as the >method of use, but the doc clearly states the >preemption method is not prevented either. > > > > >Also,  is the term in the namespace “esnetâ€Â global? > >verses being jug just US based? > >What in the IETF is only US based (that's standards track)? > >To your question - of course it's a global >namespace, as I call out 911 (which isn't only US >based), 112 (used by 3GPP - and nearly ubiquitous >throughout European GSM systems), and 999 (used >in the UK) as the style of calls this namespace is intended for. > >James > > > > >Regards, > > > >Martin Dolly > >Lead Member Technical Staff > >Core & Government/Regulatory Standards > >AT&T Services, Inc. > >md3135@att.com > >+1-609-903-3360 > > > > > > > >From: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org > >[mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Janet P Gunn > >Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:52 AM > >To: James M. Polk > >Cc: ecrit@ietf.org > >Subject: [Ecrit] > >draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01.txt > >was Re:draft-ietf-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01 > > > > > >James, > > > >Apologies for the cut and paste error on the > >current document name- fixed now. > > > >I still think it is important that queuing be > >MENTIONED in the Intro- even if it is a vague as > >"...possibly in addition to, or instead of, queuing" > > > >For the rest, if no one else agrees with my > >concerns, I will plead guilty to being pedantic, and let it go. > > > >You already fixed my primary concern. > > > >Janet > >, > > > >From: > >"James M. Polk" <jmpolk@cisco.com> > >To: > >Janet P Gunn/USA/CSC@CSC, Janet P Gunn/USA/CSC@CSC > >Cc: > >ecrit@ietf.org > >Date: > >06/15/2011 09:24 PM > >Subject: > >Re: [Ecrit] draft-ietf-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-01 > > > > > > > > > > > >At 01:53 PM 6/15/2011, Janet P Gunn wrote: > > > > >Comments on the new version > > > > > > > > >In the second paragraph of the Intro, I suggest > > >changing "understandable" to "understood", to > > >better parallel the wording in 4412. > > > > > >I am still concerned that the Introduction > > >mentions ONLY "MLPP-like" behavior (and does not > > >mention queuing AT ALL), when the namespace is > > >being registered as "queue-based". I have no > > >problem with the discussion of MLPP-like > > >behavior- but the Intro needs to mention queueing AS WELL. > > > >I disagree. The Intro is merely informative, and > >the above request is treating the queuing as > >normative, which is a limitation I do not want to do. > > > > > > >I also still think that "MLPP - like behavior > > >without the prememption", and without queueing, > > >is pretty useless. It cannot "ensure more the > > >important calls are established or retained" > > > >sure it can. > > > >voice isn't the only think that is traversing the > >routers, even within an ESInet. > > > > > > >Furthermore, the second part of the sentence is > > >a non sequitor - "THEREFORE (my caps) the > > >"esnet" namespace is given 5 priority-levels". > > > >what was the sentence before and after the one > >you quote? They provide some context to having > >more than one or two priority-levels. > > > > >The need for 5 priority levels is orthogonal to > > >whether it is MLPP-like or queue-based. If you > > >got rid of the "therefore", and made it two sentences, it would be fine. > > > >"therefore" is concluding what was just said to > >justify why more than 1 or 2 priority-levels are > >being assigned to this namespace. > > > > > > >In section 2, I still have problems with this sentence > > > > > > "The "esnet" namespace SHOULD only be used in times of an emergency, > > > where at least one end of the signaling is within a local emergency > > > organization." > > > > > >This, of course, begs the question -what is the > > >definition of a â€ÅÅ“time of emergencyâ€Ã‚Â? > > > >you mean locaal emergency" right? > > > >Is it not clear that in local emergencies one > >(effectively) dials a number like 911 or 112 or 999? > > > >Who does this type of dialing? > > > >answer - local citizens > > > >Who do they call? > > > >answer - PSAPs > > > >I'm not going to define each of these terms - > >especially a highly subjective one like "times of > >an emergency" (which is a phrase, not a term). > >Citizens self-determine when they are experiences > >or witnessing a time of emergency and either act on it or choose not to. > > > >The point is that this is generally (hence the > >SHOULD) for citizen-to-authority communications, > >not authority-to-authority or > >authority-to-citizen communications; and I'm not > >going to define any of those phrases either). > > > > >Does some authority have to formally declare > a “time of e emergencyâ€Ã‚Â? > > > >you're kre killing me here.... it's > >citizen-to-authority communication like the diagram shows. > > > >If someone is breaking into your house, do you > >really need to wait for an authority to declare > >"a time of emergency" before you call 911? really?! > > > > >It would seem that, by definition, every > > >911/112/999 call represents a “time o of >f > > >emergencyâ€Ã‚Â, at least for the calller. > > > >>yeah... so what can you conclude from that? That > >maybe its all about citizen-to-authority > >communications (which is shown in the diagram)? > > > > > > >And what do you mean by “one end of > > signaling? Is a B2BUA an “en¬Å“endâ€Ã‚Â? > > > >can a B2BUA by itselfself representt a citizen, or > >does a B2BUA continue the received signaling from > >a UA (albeit as a separate dialog or call leg) > >towards a PSAP for the 911/112/999 call? > > > >This document is NOT building an architecture, > >not even attempting to, and I'm not inclined > to be drug down that path either. > > > > > > > > >What is the definition of “a local emergency > > >organizationÃnâ€Ã‚ÂÂÂ? Is that the same as a PSAP? > > > >you'rre killing me here (again)... do I need to > >define each word in this ID before you agree to consider it? > > > >I've got a better idea, I can remove the context > >for why this namespace is needed and just make it > >a 3 page IANA registration doc. That solves all > >the terminology issues (by not having any). > > > >But seriously, even the abstract draws this distinction: > > > > "... for local emergency > > usage to a public safety answering point (PSAP) ..." > > > > > > >If a PSAP is directly connected to the (public) > > >Service Provider network, without a separate > > >“ESI n networkÃkâ€Ã‚Â, is it allowed to use this namespacee? > > > > >which Internet police would prevent this? > > > >This document cannot define all the different > >network configurations possible, nor should it try. > > > > > > > > >At the end of 3.2, > > > "The remaining rules originated in RFC 4412 apply with regard to an > > > RP actor, who understands more than one namespace, and MUST maintain > > > its locally significant relative priority order." > > >is still awkwardly worded, but the content is OK. > > > >I'm going to stick with your "ok"... > > > > > > > > >In section 5 I still have problems following this sentence > > > > > >"...the implications of using this > > > namespace within the field incorrectly can potentially cause a large > > > impact on a network, given that this indication is to give > > > preferential treatment of marked traffic great preference within the > > > network verses other traffic. " > > > > > >First, “markedâ€Ã‚ coulcould mean many different > > >things. Second, given that you have 5 different > > >priority levels, it is unlikely that they ALL > > >“give preferentitial treatment t of marked > > >traffic great preferenceâ€Ã‚ (which is also redundant). > > > > > >I still prefer > > > > > >“Incorrectly using this namesespace within the > > >ReResource-Priority header field can cause a large > > >impact on a network. For some priority > > >values, this namespace can give great > > >preference within the network over other traffic.â€Ã‚ > >This is the Sec-Cons sectioon, and the idea of > >marked packets or calls is the proper description. > > > > > > >Finally, I think it would make sense to include > > >an informative reference for "MLPP-like behavior"- perhaps 4411. > > > >4411 creates, defines, describes how the > >preemption indication is communicated, which has > >nothing directly to do with this doc. If > >anything, MLPP is described in 4412 which is > >already a normative reference in this doc. > > > >James > > > >BTW - the subject line is wrong above, it's not > >"draft-ietf-ecrit-...-01.txt" anymore, it's > >"draft-polk-...-01.txt", making this a non-WG > >item. This gives me a far greater latitude in how I edit the doc... > > > > > > > > >Janet > > > > > >This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the > > >intended recipient, please delete without > > >copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. > > >NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall > > >not operate to bind CSC to any order or other > > >contract unless pursuant to explicit written > > >agreement or government initiative expressly > > >permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Ecrit mailing list > > >Ecrit@ietf.org > > ><https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit>ht > > tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit > >
- Re: [Ecrit] draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namesp… DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI)
- Re: [Ecrit] draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namesp… James M. Polk
- Re: [Ecrit] draft-polk-local-emergency-rph-namesp… DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTSI)