Re: [Enum] ENUM Query

Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com> Fri, 13 March 2020 11:54 UTC

Return-Path: <wcutler@gsma.com>
X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3213A1658 for <enum@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 04:54:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gsmasso.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rkrOJdFwQAkC for <enum@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 04:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR05-AM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am6eur05on2065.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.22.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F0563A135C for <enum@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 04:54:52 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; =?utf-8?q?b=3Dk+Oqj/PRALLJwWUYp0P6cFlipwgnLPS2LG9lwO6iMeEyzpuwlfVPkwnuY6Csk?= =?utf-8?q?+THNxbf7lJJd+febZIZVWwXa6URZwwQx+58njE1lQkP5VyN+oFsOxldkRAfKptvve?= =?utf-8?q?Q7qK9PqyAkMjeJJF0KZJ7UUpN2FDe4lAyCBxSe3AcJithqRr4ynloiXFeyL46Mr4p?= =?utf-8?q?OKBtk8TdtvKXXh/1kdgQLzqlXsyRsia7yRKl974MlUqMUoDOj8J6VR4JutsKh3CHb?= =?utf-8?q?PmB7RwPJnwfGXOyQ3CAAHoccg4wFM/AOuR2NTI8tGr9eqz8zPI7Sghw7JS8/l9rQ5?= =?utf-8?q?m+Ei+diO+2pCYJjIzDibA=3D=3D?=
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; =?utf-8?q?h=3DFrom=3ADate=3ASubject=3AMessage-ID=3ACont?= =?utf-8?q?ent-Type=3AMIME-Version=3AX-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck=3B?= =?utf-8?q?bh=3DZr9Rez2KDJmb8CgaOr9MUvKbuDkt9Jpdy3QduBP+8L0=3D=3B_b=3DE4AfvR?= =?utf-8?q?XkNtI+buUpPhGRFeILPthmVCpz4sVRH0KbFC7rA1K6LTQZ67D0gBNLepeSd9X+56A?= =?utf-8?q?dE3ubClZ4VoiSW0am92/PZsuF14PDmH0YB1xYhvHVswnlaPgynatx98FvDwMOwd0s?= =?utf-8?q?fq3JDlTa2D9GZ0l3CUGsLzsC8mb8N4qS1J9nX1rPvb4wMGi1scxxvHTSaoGWBlbLu?= =?utf-8?q?Rndpc7lEqB4U9KeEMebO+2HMW8bqlqZ20Lvc4Vrz8hJR1j8Sp9TRQtHrWhryViIZM?= =?utf-8?q?qpCSkl+hrzOhYfQVQksMqpwuIeY2z27R48wJ8Mh5P76NzhOIzoWhm5jyTqsezOyXb?= =?utf-8?q?vIJFHv6rGHA=3D=3D?=
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gsma.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=gsma.com; dkim=pass header.d=gsma.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=GSMASSO.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-GSMASSO-onmicrosoft-com; =?utf-8?q?h?= =?utf-8?q?=3DFrom=3ADate=3ASubject=3AMessage-ID=3AContent-Type=3AMIME-Versi?= =?utf-8?q?on=3AX-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck=3B?= =?utf-8?q?bh=3DZr9Rez2KDJmb8CgaOr9MUvKbuDkt9Jpdy3QduBP+8L0=3D=3B_b=3DjHhCDb?= =?utf-8?q?Hagm4nica/F4DjHWnDD51NXH9YO/o8ZNCLHDeINzt2dgBbjd3VfGWHlXOg0NV9fOf?= =?utf-8?q?GCpyb3D2A3sGal8KnUvHGdnMpSmLrYT6USdRLIbDRaLQ3rE7PZkSch6cKFvQjgONA?= =?utf-8?q?aj/c4lMLjS/XPUpfNBvhZuND+MJd1W1DCA8=3D?=
Received: from DB7PR04MB5418.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (20.178.104.203) by DB7PR04MB4874.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (20.176.233.88) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2814.18; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:54:49 +0000
Received: from DB7PR04MB5418.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::79e8:a6ac:7df9:c295]) by DB7PR04MB5418.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::79e8:a6ac:7df9:c295%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2793.021; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:54:49 +0000
From: Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>
CC: "enum@ietf.org" <enum@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Enum] ENUM Query
Thread-Index: =?utf-8?q?AdXxSRFnBGvgUDfqQUGG0eLpOyEqRQAO0jiAAB7UIfAABIubgAAC?= =?utf-8?q?Ug1QAJTuBYAAalxosAACa+0AAAIcd4AAwCr/EA=3D=3D?=
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:54:49 +0000
Message-ID: =?utf-8?q?=3CDB7PR04MB5418B9E732C770A3BC0788FBC3FA0=40DB7PR04MB5?= =?utf-8?q?418=2Eeurprd04=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?=
References: =?utf-8?q?=3CDB7PR04MB54183341C4145762B969A0B1C3E40=40DB7PR04MB5?= =?utf-8?q?418=2Eeurprd04=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= =?utf-8?q?=3CADFB7C13-0783-46A8-B9C9-86D503FF87B9=40brianrosen=2Enet=3E_=3C?= =?utf-8?q?DB7PR04MB5418DCD96342D69A51AFDF3AC3E50=40DB7PR04MB5418=2Eeurprd04?= =?utf-8?q?=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= =?utf-8?q?=3Calpine=2EDEB=2E2=2E20=2E2003041130480=2E19506=40softronics=2Eh?= =?utf-8?q?oeneisen=2Ech=3E_=3CDB7PR04MB54186234B94264FEA913888EC3E50=40DB7P?= =?utf-8?q?R04MB5418=2Eeurprd04=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= =?utf-8?q?=3Calpine=2EDEB=2E2=2E20=2E2003071103230=2E19506=40softronics=2Eh?= =?utf-8?q?oeneisen=2Ech=3E_=3CDB7PR04MB5418E392AD73AF330044E0F2C3FE0=40DB7P?= =?utf-8?q?R04MB5418=2Eeurprd04=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= <alpine.DEB.2.20.2003091520500.23510@softronics.hoeneisen.ch> <A7704953-E79C-4835-9AE1-A97A567E37FC@brianrosen.net>
In-Reply-To: <A7704953-E79C-4835-9AE1-A97A567E37FC@brianrosen.net>
Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=wcutler@gsma.com;
x-originating-ip: [80.5.43.66]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 031d8b1a-d377-44c7-0ee3-08d7c7455575
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR04MB4874:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: =?utf-8?q?=3CDB7PR04MB48747DDAE4A1ED36B25A698DC3F?= =?utf-8?q?A0=40DB7PR04MB4874=2Eeurprd04=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?=
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:3968;
x-forefront-prvs: 034119E4F6
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; =?utf-8?q?SFS=3A=2810001=29=281000902?= =?utf-8?b?MCkoNDYzNjAwOSkoMzk4NTA0MDAwMDQpKDM2NjAwNCkoMzk2MDAzKSgxMzYwMDMp?= =?utf-8?b?KDM3NjAwMikoMzQ2MDAyKSgxOTkwMDQpKDcxMjAwNDAwMDAxKSgzMTYwMDIpKDEx?= =?utf-8?b?MDEzNjAwNSkoNDc4NjAwMDAxKSg5NjYwMDUpKDI2MDA1KSgzMzY1NjAwMiko?= =?utf-8?q?186003=29=2881156014=29=2881166006=29=288936002=29=284326008=29?= =?utf-8?b?KDI5MDYwMDIpKDc2OTYwMDUpKDg2NzYwMDIpKDg2MzYyMDAxKSg1NTAxNjAwMiko?= =?utf-8?q?9686003=29=2866946007=29=2845080400002=29=285660300002=29=2876116?= =?utf-8?b?MDA2KSg2NDc1NjAwOCkoNjUwNjAwNykoNjY1NTYwMDgpKDY2NDQ2MDA4KSg2?= =?utf-8?q?6476007=29=2853546011=29=2866574012=29=2852536014=29=3B?= DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB7PR04MB4874; H:DB7PR04MB5418.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: gsma.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: =?utf-8?q?SIzjKq8p4XvfR0mHNzmR5n7uxhzQQyE?= =?utf-8?q?CDW4qc08dbXqLGljx9fGdWIEcrkUDE8O0S9tqYWOD5C7BDTCyILCjFhSh9uTkXjm5?= =?utf-8?q?0otXWbL3ESkew7vPiSKSegWisYlhr9l85A2s6Kkh0GHeZRL0noSK2FhmOrCzHTip1?= =?utf-8?q?WevYDNuAraHa9vs0RMemIVuSGm2wZgU9xA3T4QPbIPZTcs9hlfwrPorvEqQWl0Ut7?= =?utf-8?q?oShhbCBZ9lHspap4x8eb9VsOOhTvafrMh0Fh7X9FiiA5S0TTRVRGwRC5Ux75TEAxv?= =?utf-8?q?AZdHRGxGBgsC80HLAVgdFREfhKjKR3xxcQ/4/V9W9p+j9f2WpOotMHnpqwTSyWf56?= =?utf-8?q?SlX+sy2/jod1eF4lVLslle4LMzlYoyqktkkeKHx78EvMsaJswX9cCUR90cl+Yex7B?= =?utf-8?q?Rkpzqofw179hqYAmOyAop0gZz0XTCAb1c12x5sgYuZ/8C/XatBQX2mExalmMZ5NyY?= =?utf-8?q?2GEykrUe2PuV8QK0aexagY3vkyqbLijaBkRShJrnuv03YgurjXFkp4Uh02rTajRon?= =?utf-8?q?yu0AU1KJl/5JamPEx2gqGb222DmLQhYs7lpi+KOG0aWhCj9fMIjnccx0tHCbw1MaJ?= =?utf-8?q?Tp8b7sG2pSI4MQcGlgvSLvHx?=
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?utf-8?q?ufAdtQp71QtzqnvkHb8jrep/3eGFOX?= =?utf-8?q?H17N1ZGFU2uWiXZZrTx1YmHHLYJXuDT4+eJ02E6HSuG3/P0AUx3dKD97Smb/RfTSZ?= =?utf-8?q?7bAweB5siOMSglHmvuwwfoIHIXRBvyXBfUXAWByyXRvIiCNdPdc0kKQ=3D=3D?=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: gsma.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 031d8b1a-d377-44c7-0ee3-08d7c7455575
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Mar 2020 11:54:49.4751 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72a4ff82-fec3-469d-aafb-ac8276216699
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: =?utf-8?q?5y4dzntao+vu6o8px1mXc?= =?utf-8?q?fA9t3kO0u/jNiIAcsguuBcasIzHXCq0CFyD8frdpuy7mp6g7tnt4mb7ylRiRiGEoA?= =?utf-8?q?=3D=3D?=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR04MB4874
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-AuthMechanism: 04
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-AuthSource: DB7PR04MB5418.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-TransportTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-TransportTrafficSubType:
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-SCL: 1
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-messagesource: StoreDriver
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-BCC:
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-originalclientipaddress: 80.5.43.66
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-transporttraffictype: Email
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-transporttrafficsubtype:
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-disclaimer-hash: aec8266e882fb4f8d424fb644b62ffb96bb5589a477100b41df8a31983dca2b9
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-antispam-scancontext: DIR:Originating; SFV:NSPM; SKIP:0;
X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-processed-by-journaling: Journal Agent
X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: DB7PR04MB4874.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/enum/lB1CDqxt_lKkjE_gHVZwqEmvoUk>
Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query
X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Enum Discussion List <enum.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/enum>, <mailto:enum-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/enum/>
List-Post: <mailto:enum@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:enum-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum>, <mailto:enum-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:54:59 -0000

Thanks Brian & Bernie for your feedback.

I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs.sip and is unambiguous in the service set provided by such a result.

The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL & RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RCS - and therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services" or unified communications. So, I don't think we would deprecate the use of the sip enumservice - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip service for "MMTEL only". I will consult with parties internally and see what the consensus is.

As I've said previously, it is intended to use the new ENUM result(s) in the so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENUM infrastructure for the telecommunications industry which uses the top level domain of "e164enum.net" as opposed to "e164.arpa". Given that this is a private infrastructure, using a different top level domain,  would this new ENUM service be appropriate for a standards track or informational RFC and would it be permitted for the related internet draft to refer to the private "e164enum.net" top level domain ?

Best Regards,
Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50
To: Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>
Cc: Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com>om>; enum@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query

“This email has been received from an external source – please review before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments”


I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way forward.

While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for messaging, it is, and will be widely used for voice calls.

Brian

> On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch> wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne
>
> My comments inline.
>
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote:
>
>> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transfer, Geolocation Push etc.
>>
>> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I
>> would say that :-
>> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and returns an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the need to translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance.
>
>> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't really about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit IMO.
>
> Thanks for clarification.
>
>> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice seems reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an Internet Draft presumably?
>
> RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf.
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftool
> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23section-6&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40g
> sma.com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827
> 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=ZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYRJUWBFo
> HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
>> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I think there are backwards compatibility issues as there are implementations already out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL. Therefore, this is something we wouldn't want to do.
>
> Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, using two new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less prone to ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system.
>
> - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only)
> (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at  least
> provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip"
>  (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implement.
>
> - for new systems you could specify:
>
>  - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority);
>    use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback)
>
>  - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive
>    services,
>    while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to find the
>    correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or a system
>    that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service.
>
> You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transition period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether.
>
> Does this make sense for your environment?
>
> cheers
> Bernie
>
> _______________________________________________
> enum mailing list
> enum@ietf.org
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40gsma
> .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827621
> 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=epNTFgp51vkSOeKW0PjJWVyHv9
> wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&amp;reserved=0

.