[Gen-art] draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj-10 OK [Re: NFSv4 documents on the Dec 4 telechat]
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 03 December 2008 20:15 UTC
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Message-ID: <4936E8D1.1000004@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:15:13 +1300
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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To: Benny Halevy <bhalevy@panasas.com>
References: <1C47E008-616F-4D26-A892-652629C3F61D@nokia.com> <0806C0A9-C4A2-4419-8B90-90FAC930FCDE@nokia.com> <7225594ED4A1304C9E43D030A886D2215523F8@daytona.int.panasas.com> <4930A1E4.7010302@gmail.com> <C77CAF49-1D1C-4509-9559-38E093D8C920@nokia.com> <493570AF.7020404@panasas.com>
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Cc: General Area Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>, Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>, nfsv4-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj@tools.ietf.org, "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>
Subject: [Gen-art] draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj-10 OK [Re: NFSv4 documents on the Dec 4 telechat]
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I'm happy with draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj-10, thanks. (subject to the ongoing copyright license discussion) Brian On 2008-12-03 06:30, Benny Halevy wrote: > On Dec. 02, 2008, 11:13 +0200, Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com> wrote: >> On 2008-11-29, at 3:59, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> Thanks. All your responses re pnfs-obj look fine to me. >> Great - authors, please make these changes. > > Lars, I've uploaded draft-10 that addresses the last call comments. > > Summary of changes made: > > Re-wrote abstract > Borrowed some text from pnfs-bloc and added some more > explanatory text for first-time/occasional readers. > > Scrubbed references. > Removed URL's that refer to draft documents > Changed references to the OSD standard from > SNIA T10/1355-D to the formal ANSI INCITS 400-2004 name. > Moved NFSv4.1, NFSv4.1 XDR Description, iSNS, and EUI to > from the Informative to the Normative References section. > Add [[RFC Editor: ...]] comments for required RFC number > back-patching. > > Rewrote "Client Fencing" to clearly define when the server MAY > fence the client off. > > Fixed a couple spelling mistakes. > >>> You really >>> are pioneers for the new copyright stuff, so I'd suggest that >>> should be taken out of the IESG decision path and resolved >>> during editing. If it was me, I'd ask the IETF Trust to take >>> a look and see what they think their own rules mean in this case. >> I suggest you make the copyright change Brian points out below and >> then ask the trust to take a look at the revised document. > > Done. > What's the best way to contact the IETF Trust? > > Benny > >> Thanks, >> Lars >> >>> Brian >>> >>> On 2008-11-29 11:06, Halevy, Benny wrote: >>>> Both David and Brian commented on the XDR code copyright message >>>> and Brian suggested the following instead: >>>> /// * This code was derived from IETF RFC >>>> /// * [[RFC Editor: please insert RFC number]]. >>>> /// * Please reproduce this note if possible. >>>> >>>> However, according to http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/IETF-Trust-License-Policy.pdf >>>> it seems like using the BSD license in section 4. >>>> "License to Code Components." might be more appropriate. >>>> >>>>> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Thu 2008-11-27 23:18 >>>>> To: General Area Review Team; Lars Eggert; draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj@tools.ietf.org >>>>> ; nfsv4-chairs@tools.ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj-09.txt >>>>> >>>>> I have been selected as the General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) >>>>> reviewer for this draft (for background on Gen-ART, please see >>>>> http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf/gen/art/gen-art-FAQ.html). >>>>> >>>>> Please wait for direction from your document shepherd >>>>> or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >>>>> >>>>> Document: draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj-09.txt >>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter >>>>> Review Date: 2008-11-28 >>>>> IESG Telechat date: 04 Dec 2008 >>>>> >>>>> Summary: Almost ready, some queries and nits (no response to Last >>>>> Call review sent 2008-10-22) >>>>> >>>>> Comments: >>>>> >>>>> My understanding is that the current specification of OSD is >>>>> expected to be updated in a big way for Version 2 of OSD, >>>>> and that there is very little deployment of OSDv1. >>>>> I can't judge the utility of defining a pNFS to OSDv1 mapping >>>>> at this time, but I do wonder whether this is really appropriate >>>>> for the standards track rather than Experimental (or Informational, >>>>> if it documents current practice). >>>> This is a valid point. >>>> pnfs-obj can be implmented and deployed over OSDv1 >>>> which is an ANSI INCITS standard but we do need to support >>>> OSDv2 when it becomes a standard which will happen "soon" >>>> (looks like in the 2009 time frame). I see nothing substancial >>>> changing when this happens other than updating the reference >>>> and deleting the comment in section 5.1. pnfs_osd_deltaspaceused4. >>>> I'm not sure how does that should exactly affect pnfs-obj's status, >>>> but I'd like to be able to easily davance it in the standards track >>>> when >>>> OSDv2 does eventually become an official stadard. >>>> >>>>> I don't see any goal or milestone in the WG charter for this work, >>>>> but the charter hasn't been updated since 2003 anyway. >>>>> >>>>> It is impossible to review this in detail for technical content >>>>> unless >>>>> the reviewer is an expert on NFSv4 and OSD, which I am not. So >>>>> these are >>>>> mainly comments on form rather than content. The document is >>>>> generally >>>>> of good quality. >>>>> >>>>>> 11. Client Fencing >>>>>> >>>>>> In cases where clients are uncommunicative and their lease has >>>>>> expired or when clients fail to return recalled layouts in a >>>>>> timely >>>>>> manner the server MAY revoke client layouts and/or device address >>>>>> mappings and reassign these resources to other clients. >>>>> What does "in a timely manner" mean? Is there a specific timer >>>>> specified >>>>> for this, in which case there should be a cross-reference? If not, >>>>> there should be a statement about what determines the timeout and >>>>> what the default value should be. >>>> Hmm, there's actually a pretty good reference by now. >>>> I'll refer to NFSv4.1 section 12.5.5. Recalling a Layout >>>> Once a layout is recalled, a server MUST wait one >>>> lease period before taking further action. As soon as a lease >>>> period >>>> has past, the server may choose to fence the client's access to the >>>> storage devices if the server perceives the client has taken too >>>> long >>>> to return a layout. >>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>> Normative reference issues: >>>>> >>>>>> [2] Weber, R., "SCSI Object-Based Storage Device Commands", >>>>>> July 2004, <http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/drafts/osd/osd-r10.pdf >>>>>>> . >>>>> This looks like it's a draft, so could be a problem as a normative >>>>> reference. >>>> The link to the latest draft was there just for convenience. >>>> the actual standard is ANSI/INCITS 400-2004 >>>> providing a link to INCITS's online store >>>> http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/detail?product_id=1204555 >>>> doesn't seem too polite to me :-/ >>>> >>>>>> Note that the XDR code contained in this document depends on >>>>>> types >>>>>> from the NFSv4.1 nfs4_prot.x file ([8]). >>>>> IMHO [8] should therefore be a normative reference. >>>> Yup. agreed. >>>> I didn't put it there since it was just an I-D at the time. >>>> I'd put [[RFC Editor: please insert RFC number]] >>>> comments then for refrences [8] and [9] >>>> >>>>>> The deviceid4 data >>>>>> type is defined in NFSv4.1 draft [9]. >>>>> Ditto for [9] >>>> ditto >>>> >>>>>> The client MAY still use other >>>>>> discovery mechanisms such as iSNS [16] to locate the device >>>>> Ditto for [16] I think, despite the "such as". >>>> No problem. >>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>> Nits: >>>>> >>>>>> Abstract >>>>> ... >>>>>> Internet Draft, >>>>>> which is currently draft-ietf-nfsv4-minorversion1-23. >>>>> Needless to say this is out of date, and it will be an RFC by the >>>>> time >>>>> the present document is an RFC itself. Just delete the phrase? >>>> Agreed. There's a formal reference for NFSv4.1 >>>> >>>>> The XDR code includes >>>>> >>>>> /// * >>>>> /// * Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007-2008) >>>>> /// * All Rights Reserved. >>>>> /// * >>>>> /// * Copyright (C) The Internet Society (1998-2006). >>>>> /// * All Rights Reserved. >>>>> >>>>> I believe this is inconsistent with the latest (draft) >>>>> requirements of the >>>>> IETF Trust. This may be a test case, but according to >>>>> http://trustee.ietf.org/policyandprocedures.html , >>>>> I believe that the code should simply say: >>>>> >>>>> /// * This code was derived from IETF RFC >>>>> /// * [[RFC Editor: please insert RFC number]]. >>>>> /// * Please reproduce this note if possible. >>>> See discussion above. >>>> >>>>> [5] IBM, IBM, Cisco Systems, Hewlett-Packard Co., and IBM, >>>>> "Internet Small Computer Systems Interface (iSCSI)", RFC >>>>> 3720, >>>>> April 2004, <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3720.txt>. >>>>> >>>>> [7] Hewlett-Packard Co., Hewlett-Packard Co., and Hewlett-Packard >>>>> Co., "T11 Network Address Authority (NAA) Naming Format for >>>>> iSCSI Node Names", RFC 3980, February 2005, >>>>> <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3980.txt>. >>>>> >>>>> These should be cited by author names like any other RFC. >>>> Agreed. Bug in my xml ref definition will be fixed in next revision. >>>> (already fixed in my copy...) >>>> >>>> Thanks for the review! >>>> >>>> Benny >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> From: Lars Eggert [mailto:lars.eggert@nokia.com] >>>> Sent: Fri 2008-11-28 21:42 >>>> To: draft-ietf-nfsv4-minorversion1@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-nfsv4-minorversion1-dot-x@tools.ietf.org >>>> ; draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-block@tools.ietf.org >>>> ; nfsv4-chairs@tools.ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: NFSv4 documents on the Dec 4 telechat >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The reviews I have seen are attached. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>> From: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com> >>>>> Date: November 25, 2008 23:29:02 GMT+02:00 >>>>> To: "Eggert Lars (Nokia-NRC/Espoo)" <lars.eggert@nokia.com> >>>>> Cc: "shepler@storspeed.com" <shepler@storspeed.com>, >>>>> "beepy@netapp.com" <beepy@netapp.com>, "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com >>>>>> , "mike@eisler.com" <mike@eisler.com>, "bhalevy@panasas.com" <bhalevy@panasas.com >>>>>> >>>>> Subject: NFSv4.1 drafts - XDR copyrights are wrong >>>>> >>>>> Lars, >>>>> >>>>> I found an unfortunate issue in the NFSv4.1 drafts that needs >>>>> your attention. The dot-x file draft, pNFS blocks draft, and >>>>> pNFS object draft all contain an extractable XDR source file >>>>> with embedded copyrights. >>>>> >>>>> The problem is that the copyrights read: >>>>> >>>>> /// * Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007-2008) >>>>> /// * All Rights Reserved. >>>>> /// * >>>>> /// * Copyright (C) The Internet Society (1998-2006). >>>>> /// * All Rights Reserved. >>>>> >>>>> "All Rights Reserved" looks very wrong - the intent is >>>>> for people to extract and use these XDR files to develop >>>>> implementations. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, it's not immediately clear what's right >>>>> because the existence of two copyright statements above >>>>> is an example of Sam Hartman's plenary question about >>>>> documents that exist under more than one version of the >>>>> IETF IP Policies (for which there wasn't a clear answer). >>>>> >>>>> Can you figure out what's correct and write an RFC Editor >>>>> Note to that effect to correct the copyright statements >>>>> in all three drafts? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> --David >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>>>> David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer >>>>> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA 01748 >>>>> +1 (508) 293-7953 FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786 >>>>> black_david@emc.com Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754 >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>> From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> >>>>> Date: November 27, 2008 23:18:31 GMT+02:00 >>>>> To: General Area Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>, "Eggert Lars >>>>> (Nokia- >>>>> NRC/Espoo)" <lars.eggert@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj@tools.ietf.org >>>>> " <draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj@tools.ietf.org>, "nfsv4-chairs@tools.ietf.org >>>>> " <nfsv4-chairs@tools.ietf.org> >>>>> Subject: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj-09.txt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ Gen-art mailing list Gen-art@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art
- [Gen-art] draft-ietf-nfsv4-pnfs-obj-10 OK [Re: NF… Brian E Carpenter