Re: [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-05.txt
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Tue, 17 March 2015 14:26 UTC
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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 10:25:59 -0400
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
References: <550212BD.6070506@nostrum.com> <550229E7.3080304@joelhalpern.com> <CALaySJ+3UWJGz_MjSZt=KqBnV+az4mVsKmnWi06q6kYCkO7Q7g@mail.gmail.com> <7C57505DBD1E7EB8518C2694@JcK-HP8200.jck.com>
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Cc: General Area Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>, Tony Hansen <tony@att.com>
Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-05.txt
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That wording works for me. Yours, Joel On 3/17/15 10:21 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > > > --On Monday, March 16, 2015 23:06 -0400 Barry Leiba > <barryleiba@computer.org> wrote: > >> Joel, thanks for the review. >> >>> Minor issues: >>> The description of the 556 reply code in section 4 seems >>> to switch between refering to the generating entity as a >>> client and as a sesrver. I presume this is because the >>> actual sitaution is an SMTP server is trying to pass >>> information onwards, and in that onwards direction it is a >>> client which. But it is still confusing for an SMTP client >>> to make a determination and then an SMTP server which is >>> apparently the same entity to generate the rror code to some >>> other SMPT client. >> >> You're right about why, and you're right that it's confusing. >> I think the reader and the text would be better served by >> changing the first instance of the word "client" (in the >> second sentence) to "server". Even though the server is acting >> as a client when it makes the determination that sentence is >> talking about, it's acting as a server in the sense that it >> will be returning a 556 to the client that it's serving. >> Calling it a "client" here only confuses things. > > Hi. While I agree that the existing text is confusing (although > correct), the suggested fix just substitutes one confusing > arrangement for another, with "server" used twice in the same > sentence to refer to two different hosts that serve two > different roles. See if the following rather more complete > rewrite for that second sentence works better: > > When an intermediate SMTP system (typically a relay) > that would normally attempt to open a mail connection to > a host referred to in a forward-pointing address can > determine that the host does not accept mail > connections, and do so without attempting to open a > connection to that target host, it is appropriate for it > to return a reply with a 556 code to the system that > sent it the message for outbound transmission. > > The eliminates the "client" and "server" terminology entirely > and talks instead about actual functions. I'm tired and there > are probably better ways to stay that, but I think it is an > improvement over both the existing text and the client -> server > patch. > > There is a case that the above doesn't cover, but neither does > the original paragraph, and that is when a submission server > (sic) encounters a nullMX record or equivalent on initial > lookup. When the submission server tries to do that, it is > acting as an SMTP client, but the status of messages it returns > to the submitting MUA is deliberately very flexible in the spec > (see Section 3.2 of RFC 6409). > > john > >
- Re: [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-… Barry Leiba
- Re: [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-… John C Klensin
- Re: [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-… Barry Leiba
- Re: [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-… John C Klensin
- Re: [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-… Jari Arkko
- [Gen-art] A *new* batch of IETF LC reviews - 2015… A. Jean Mahoney
- [Gen-art] Review: draft-klensin-smtp-521code-05.t… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] A *new* batch of IETF LC reviews - … Martin Thomson