Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Streaming (HAS) in CDN use cases
Ori Finkelman <orif@qwilt.com> Sun, 04 November 2018 07:53 UTC
Return-Path: <orif@qwilt.com>
X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883BF130E07 for <ggie@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2018 00:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.889
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=qwilt-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3tOMViy3efXZ for <ggie@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2018 00:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com (mail-wm1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EF86127133 for <ggie@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Nov 2018 00:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id l2-v6so5157906wmh.3 for <ggie@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Nov 2018 00:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=qwilt-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oIEzcvqkNSxzjrJ/cqwwK5os64UVXhH60YI5gGTVPCs=; b=sz2QuLoWxGuI587PyRYGZCP5ss3PY65WWFOsSbI4226Tlo6hsbedjJctujchHA5YTe hSgcK48O+sGiouc8CbXx5RuW9KG4hORVjsoT29ti83AMQl02bAkSSK489zZ2mp5VoLpe BMsKO4YZfgo0n7GN0gUVDFCWlO6d29fL5deB+EnbwNKJNbs1UUzMlzPYzVHDJuY46Pl3 P5hHfnnpOVKbwZ9kVIAE7iwK9fgqTAcg/4Btm2YGCBGRxs1phAJKvHokhj+quylSOUdv QQ9SaHoPtCz3ihk7e8TUAfsMwKKivha7oCH78JM87g8S3eO7NrMtP8dnpaW4YXR9Tgza mYMw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oIEzcvqkNSxzjrJ/cqwwK5os64UVXhH60YI5gGTVPCs=; b=J+SQBvX6G6ZN0IDuwX33WpA4p8JrFBv3G7TLzAuvciYrC/0edJ3KRjGf3TogS9JlGk vrngCaP2H5xsHC6ezztb2D78gIJdyJR9tvHamHWQyLGImir+krrUWCtdmPT0JKrHZcyA mhA71vUhBO2oMGVeHrWEjc1QP/jphm2KuqR1ZwQmyRYIGVEVYGqD8K8sG0mxA0y2TtBN Y32tN9tZ/DVb83CQsP+dJrCr1xFOHufkDyf949X2GbQWGGulIbb2WYRX1saENgqreQb8 4aFJh9X9bShYsswnsWhvJj2lqiyvN7Ul+aPx2XrV+yvT3PMSFw6Mxf5vXAH8HkrdBQqK +q9A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gK2HP7tE9jr1/PXHu9M1VApoisjem37jHLQ3VIN4/a27ZqiYu/R mlcqWL6EAv/gZbWSj7XctGbEUyCl02dZHQ6oQotyP70aoPc=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eMCZlqHPwSEtFp9RUFtRknAmhDL9w8J1ZZWtvaKB8bqR0a67oPIVp9okMjkZqhReziW4apQU98fKBbJ4uprwU=
X-Received: by 2002:a1c:545e:: with SMTP id p30-v6mr2607719wmi.69.1541317994535; Sun, 04 Nov 2018 00:53:14 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAMb9nTskMRUK+0xm43yFxz8JjJ4pyFjg2nqKn0_06vnrtXfyrw@mail.gmail.com> <CAMb9nTug8YL03Qisv5mXiR2GX6biCcROD3ETmvVyTVSaifu4XQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAOdDvNr48iH3S=xg4uk4oA-+hF9yBjcCh6C0J6xM+ZUzcG1xjQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOdDvNr48iH3S=xg4uk4oA-+hF9yBjcCh6C0J6xM+ZUzcG1xjQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ori Finkelman <orif@qwilt.com>
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2018 09:52:47 +0200
Message-ID: <CAMb9nTvhyWaSPhR6criVXpneT9OKL6TDWNtqUNpjRbQ4iEa45Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: mcmanus@ducksong.com
Cc: ietf-http-wg@w3.org, ggie@ietf.org, "Begen, Ali (Contractor)" <Ali_Begen@comcast.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008cf6220579d20f00"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ggie/BR7RxkNjHtBLo3sZ9pDOpZ7DxqI>
Subject: Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Streaming (HAS) in CDN use cases
X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force <ggie.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ggie>, <mailto:ggie-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ggie/>
List-Post: <mailto:ggie@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ggie-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie>, <mailto:ggie-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2018 07:53:20 -0000
Hi Patrick, Thanks for the feedback. Alt-Svc can serve as a good solution instead of redirect. Nevertheless, for those applications that do use HTTP redirect, I tend to think that a clear guidance on the relative reference resolution would be in place, and the more advanced behavior like failover can be specified as best practices instead of a standard. Thanks, Ori On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 5:35 AM Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com> wrote: > Hi Ori, > > As Chair: > Thanks for the draft and the note.. please submit any/all drafts to the > datatracker as soon as it reopens (which I believe is Monday morning). > > As far as I understand your topic, your primary concern is that you are > looking for a clarification on what the base URI used to resolve a relative > URI is when there has been a redirect involved.. specifically in your case > the relative URI is in a manifest file and the manifest was obtained via > 302 - is the base URI from the original manifest URI or the one that was > given in the 302 location? > > Given that a major focus of our meeting will be on http-core, and this > seems like a clarification of core semantics let's just discuss it there. > Mark and I have huddled and we think > https://github.com/httpwg/http-core/issues/38 seems like the right place. > We'll have discussion time at the meeting and of course, the list is always > a fine place for that kind of discussion too. > > As Individual: > > * its against the terminal (i.e. redirected) uri - though I had trouble > finding language to quote on it.. so some guidance seems like a good idea > at first glance > > * alternative services might also fit your use case - rfc 7838 .. in > particular they have better fallback behavior if you want to revert to the > original URI in case of reachability. > > -Patrick > > > > > On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 8:12 PM Ori Finkelman <orif@qwilt.com> wrote: > >> >> [Resending as I have sent to the wrong list] >> >> >> Hello , >> >> HTTP redirect, usually using 302 Found, is widely used in video CDN for >> HTTP Adaptive Streaming (HAS) protocols, specifically for HLS and DASH. >> Using HTTP redirect instead of the more commonly used delegation by CNAME >> is a much more powerful and flexible solution. >> >> At a high level, the required behavior is that after getting an HTTP >> redirect to a playlist address that takes the client to a CDN cache, if the >> playlist contains >> relative references to the media segments, the client should be "sticky" >> and request the subsequent media segments directly from the cache without >> the need >> for repeated redirects that would add undesired latency and harm QoE. >> However, due to misinterpretations of the RFC in some cases, and >> contradiction between this requirement and the existing RFC in other cases, >> we face many >> issues with clients that behave differently in the case of HTTP redirect, >> when relative references are being used. >> A discussion of this use case can also be found in section 2.2.1 of >> RFC6983 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6983#section-2.2.1>. >> >> The Streaming Video Alliance (SVA) and DASH Industry Forum (DASH-IF) are >> attempting to resolve these issues and create clear guidelines describing >> how video players, >> browsers and streaming applications should behave in such HTTP redirect >> cases. >> >> The attached I-D includes a detailed description of this issue, examples >> with our understanding of the current behavior and proposals for >> alternative approaches for solution. >> We were hoping that the members of HTTPBIS working group could share >> their views regarding the preferred approach in order to resolve this >> issue. >> >> If there is interest and some available time I can prepare a quick slide >> deck for the httpbis meetings next week. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Ori >> >> >> >> -- >> >> *Ori Finkelman*Qwilt | Work: +972-72-2221647 | Mobile: +972-52-3832189 | >> orif@qwilt.com >> -- >> >> *Ori Finkelman*Qwilt | Work: +972-72-2221647 | Mobile: +972-52-3832189 | >> orif@qwilt.com >> -- >> >> *Ori Finkelman*Qwilt | Work: +972-72-2221647 | Mobile: +972-52-3832189 | >> orif@qwilt.com >> > -- *Ori Finkelman*Qwilt | Work: +972-72-2221647 | Mobile: +972-52-3832189 | orif@qwilt.com
- [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Streaming … Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Aaron Falk
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Ali C. Begen
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Thomas Peterson
- [GGIE] Fwd: HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Strea… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Lucas Pardue
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Patrick McManus
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Lucas Pardue
- Re: [GGIE] Fwd: HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive S… Julian Reschke
- Re: [GGIE] Fwd: HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive S… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] Fwd: HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive S… Julian Reschke
- Re: [GGIE] Fwd: HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive S… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] Fwd: HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive S… Julian Reschke
- [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Streaming … Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] Fwd: HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive S… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Patrick McManus
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Julian Reschke
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Thomas Peterson
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Lucas Pardue
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Ryan Hamilton
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Julian Reschke
- Re: [GGIE] HTTP redirect for HTTP Adaptive Stream… Ori Finkelman