Re: [fmc] [Int-area] draft-boucadair-intarea-host-identifier-scenarios

[<[e-mail]>]

Hi Tina,

Many thanks for the comments.

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

________________________________
De : Tina TSOU [mailto:[e-mail]]
Envoyé : vendredi 7 décembre 2012 08:16
À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed OLNC/OLN
Cc : George, Wes; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Objet : Re: [Int-area] draft-boucadair-intarea-host-identifier-scenarios

Dear Med et al,
In general, I like the current version. Some comments are below.

1.      From my understanding, this document provides the use cases for the issues and analysis in "draft-ietf-intarea-nat-reveal-analysis". Is it correct? If it is , I suggest this document be referenced in "nat-reveal-analysis".
[Med] nat-reveal-analysis draft inherits its scope from RFC6269. The use cases draft adopts a more generic scope in which host identification issue is encountered (this can be caused by address sharing, tunnelling, involvement of multiple administrative entities, etc.).



2.      Regarding this document, in the section of CGN use case, the stateless NAT44 case should be included.
[Med] Do you mean 1:1 NAT?



3.      For A+P section, the MAP/Lw4over6 cases may be considered.
[Med] OK. I will add a pointer to MAP and Lw4over6 as examples.



4.      In figure 6, the UE may have an interface with AF to initiate the session request, e.g., SIP.
[Med] What does that mean? The goal of fig.6 is to illustrate the case where there is a host identification issue.

Thank you,
Tina

On Dec 4, 2012, at 11:10 PM, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

Dear Wes,

Thank you for your comments.

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

-----Message d'origine-----
De : George, Wes [mailto:[e-mail]]
Envoyé : mardi 4 décembre 2012 21:09
À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed OLNC/OLN; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc : [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Objet : RE: draft-boucadair-intarea-host-identifier-scenarios

I've read this draft, and I think the use case list is
reasonably complete.

However, it's really unclear to me what the value of this
draft might be in its current form, and what its intended
audience might be. Cataloging use cases is not all that
helpful by itself without an end goal in mind, and that end
goal is not clear from the draft.

Med: The goal of this draft is what is described in Section 2:

"The goal is to
  identify scenarios the authors are aware of and which share the same
  issue of host identification.

  This document does not include any solution-specific discussion.
  This document can be used as a tool to design solution(s) mitigating
  the encountered issues.  Having a generic solution which would solve
  the issues encountered in these use cases is preferred over designing
  a solution for each use case.  Describing the use case allows to
  identify what is common between the use cases and then would help
  during the solution design phase."

Next updates of this draft will:
* include a discussion section to assess whether the issue is valid for IPv4-only or it applies also for IPv6
* include a discussion text to clarify whether each use case is valid within one single administrative domain or not
* include a discussion text to identify use cases which share the same requirements (this will help in designing the solution)
* add additional use cases if any

At given point in time we need to draw conclusions about the following:
(1) are these use cases valid ones?
(2) if this is a real technical problem, what the IETF can do to solve the issue?
(3) if there is interest in this area, how to organize the work for the solution space.

The scope is deliberately
very narrow and references other drafts that discuss some of
the surrounding issues with address sharing and unique
identifiers, and so there is very little text in each section
beyond a basic description. Even when you think of this in
terms of follow-on drafts such as a gap analysis or problem
statement or solution drafts, one wonders how useful it is to
spread this across multiple drafts. So why not simply
incorporate this list into one of the referenced general
drafts on host identification, such as nat-reveal-analysis and
then broaden that draft so that it considers and addresses the
other use cases as appropriate?

Med: As I mentioned above, we don't want to include any solution-specific discussion to this draft. The text is shortened in purpose.


Otherwise, I think that the draft needs to be much clearer
about the unique issues and considerations for each use case,
especially those that are somehow distinct from those covered
in nat-reveal-analysis so that it can serve as a better input
to any potential solutions addressing this problem.

Med: Fully agreed. This will be added to the next rev of the draft.


I also believe that if this draft is to remain a standalone
document, the authors need to make at least some attempt at
discussing security and privacy considerations here, even if
it is mainly to refer the reader to more in-depth discussions
of the matter in other drafts.

Med: Agree. A pointer to http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-nat-reveal-analysis-04#section-3 will be added to the next rev of the draft. The text will also include some discussion for use cases which are restricted to one single administrative domain.


Again, here is an area where
being clear about the specific considerations for each use
case is important, identifying whether the other drafts
discuss things so that they are applicable to all of the use
cases, or if the use cases are unique in any number of ways
that will mean that they have unique privacy and security
considerations.

Thanks,

Wes George

-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:[e-mail]] On
Behalf Of [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 4:08 AM
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: [Int-area] draft-boucadair-intarea-host-identifier-scenarios

Dear all,

We submitted an updated version of this draft to list use cases which
encounter the issue of host identification. The following
use cases are
discussed in the draft:

  (1)  Carrier Grade NAT (CGN)
  (2)  A+P (e.g., MAP )
  (3)  Application Proxies
  (4)  Provider Wi-Fi
  (5)  Policy and Charging Architectures
  (6)  Cellular Networks
  (7)  Femtocells
  (8)  Overlay Networks (e.g., CDNs)

The document does not include any solution-specific
discussion. Its main
goal is to identify the use cases and describe them.

If you think your use case is not included in this version,
please share
it with us.

Comments are welcome.

Cheers,
Med


-----Message d'origine-----
De : [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:i-d-announce-
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>] De la part de [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Envoyé : lundi
3 décembre 2012 08:26 À : [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> Objet : I-D Action:
draft-boucadair-intarea-host-identifier-scenarios-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.


     Title           : Host Identification: Use Cases
     Author(s)       : Mohamed Boucadair
                         David Binet
                         Sophie Durel
                         Tirumaleswar Reddy
                         Brandon Williams
     Filename        : draft-boucadair-intarea-host-identifier-
scenarios-02.txt
     Pages           : 14
     Date            : 2012-12-02

Abstract:
  This document describes a set of scenarios in which host
  identification is required.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-intarea-host-
identifier-scenarios

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-intarea-host-identifier-
scenarios-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-boucadair-intarea-host-
identifier-scenarios-02


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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