Re: [Hls-interest] FYI: Fall 2023 hls-interest meeting

["Cava, Zachary" <[e-mail]>]

Definitely, I'll establish an order.

________________________________
From: Roger Pantos <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 8:56:54 AM
To: Cava, Zachary <[e-mail]>
Cc: Roger Pantos <rpantos=[e-mail]>; Cyril Concolato <[e-mail]>; Law, Will <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Daniel Weinberger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Hls-interest] FYI: Fall 2023 hls-interest meeting


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Thanks Zack.

While all good topics, this is a fairly long list. Would it be a good idea to prioritize these (or otherwise suggest a discussion order) to make sure we have time to discuss the most important (or time-sensitive) areas first?


Roger.

On Sep 19, 2023, at 7:43 PM, Cava, Zachary <[e-mail]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

The DASH/HLS Interop group has collected a set of topics/issues for potential discussion here: https://github.com/cta-wave/dash-hls/issues/46<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/cta-wave/dash-hls/issues/46__;!!Om87Lau1Cg!L3nnz_XnOxWZqxeYyc-6JAh6HEdyYjJZLv6G9GpjvWPWXWz-U86ZKNlxKLu0mkAtEsN01VYC4cRrfk_sYQ$>

I will bring deeper notes where necessary to facilitate conversation, but if you have other ideas please feel free to provide a comment in the issue.

Thanks,
Zack
________________________________
From: Roger Pantos <rpantos=[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 13:22
To: Cava, Zachary <[e-mail]>; Cyril Concolato <[e-mail]>
Cc: Law, Will <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Daniel Weinberger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Hls-interest] FYI: Fall 2023 hls-interest meeting

Sounds good. We’ll set aside some time to talk about HLS/DASH interop issues. (Please come equipped with specifics so we can make good use of the time.


Roger.

On Jul 28, 2023, at 8:20 AM, Cava, Zachary <zachary.cava=[e-mail]> wrote:

In line with that thinking the DASH/HLS Interop group is doing a review of our previous investigations and will submit some gaps we've identified for discussion. Will provide an update in two weeks.

Cheers,
Zack
________________________________
From: Hls-interest <[e-mail]> on behalf of Cyril Concolato <cconcolato=[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 04:51
To: Roger Pantos <rpantos=[e-mail]>
Cc: Daniel Weinberger <daniel.weinberger=[e-mail]>; Law, Will <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Hls-interest] FYI: Fall 2023 hls-interest meeting

Hi all,

I wonder if there would be interest and what could be said about the various DASH/HLS interop efforts (CTA WAVE, MPEG CMAF, ...)?

Cyril

On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:59 PM Roger Pantos <rpantos=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Thanks Will and Daniel, we’ll put those on the list.

When we discuss CMCD, one of the things I’ll be interested in hearing about is who is using it right now, for what, and which are the essential headers to support.

I think that there have been some concerns (in the past anyway) about CMCD within Apple. I’ll see if I can get an update on those.


Roger.

On Jul 19, 2023, at 3:56 AM, Daniel Weinberger <daniel.weinberger=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

Hi,

Agreed, such a roundtable would be great.

I also support Will's points, especially (1) around CMCD.

Another good topic would be to discuss if it makes sense to bring more requirements from https://developer.apple.com/documentation/http-live-streaming/hls-authoring-specification-for-apple-devices<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://developer.apple.com/documentation/http-live-streaming/hls-authoring-specification-for-apple-devices__;!!Om87Lau1Cg!L3nnz_XnOxWZqxeYyc-6JAh6HEdyYjJZLv6G9GpjvWPWXWz-U86ZKNlxKLu0mkAtEsN01VYC4cRtu5B6pg$> into the HLS specification. For example, many of the Media Playlist Requirements sound like they should be part of the HLS specification.

Regards,
Daniel Weinberger
Bitmovin Inc.

On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 12:47 AM Law, Will <wilaw=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi Roger

An hls-interest meeting,  similar to the 2019 roundtable,  would be great. Thanks for organizing.

For the agenda, I'd like to request three topics:

1. Adding CMCD (Common Media Client Data) support to the AVPlayer ecosystem. CMCD is now supported by the majority of players, including Exoplayer, Roku, hls.js, Theoplayer, Bitmovin, shaka, dash.js, video.js and others. I can provide data on the usage, the use-cases and the benefits of CMCD support as well as endorsements from the major streaming services who use it in production.
2. Consider the creation of a separate specification for Content Steering Services. Content distributors today want to steer populations of players across both HLS and DASH. The HLS IETF draft section 7 defines a mixture of server response and client behavior. There is a mirror specification in the DASH world. Someone building a steering service must reverse engineer the necessary behavior and properties of the service itself. Several ambiguities remain unanswered - are additional params allowed?, behavior with redirects?, how to report multiple pathways and throughputs since the last request?  For interoperability and robustness, it might be useful to normatively define the JSON response and behavior of a steering service (HLS sections 7.1 ... 7.3) in a separate specification. The HLS spec would then reference this spec and define the HLS cloning rules and client responsibilities and the DASH spec would do something similar.
3. Optimizing the request rate in LL-HLS  byte addressed playback by having the player optionally make one request per segment(after starting) instead of one request per part. Origin would still block on part boundaries and content would still be delivered at line speed.

Cheers
Will




On 7/17/23, 5:34 PM, "Roger Pantos" <rpantos=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>> wrote:




Hi everyone. We are thinking about holding another hls-interest meeting this fall. We're tentatively planning a hybrid in-person / remote event here in Cupertino. We’re trying to see if we can organize something the same week as FOMS and Demuxed (Oct. 23-27) when a lot of folks will be in town.


If any of you have topics you’d like to discuss during the meeting, please send them our way so that we can put together some kind of agenda.




thanks,


Roger Pantos
Apple Inc.
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