Re: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-07.txt

Niels,

Thanks for posting this.

I don't however, think that it addresses my primary concerns. It seems to
me that the major change is that you now make explicit claims about the
consensus of Science and Technology scholars and then some softer set of
claims about what the IETF thinks. Neither of these claims of consensus
seems to be supported by any real evidence, however, and reading S 4, it
seems like that describes some perspectives that don't match the claims of
general agreement in S 1.

It seems to me that this document has fallen into the not uncommon
situation where people object that fundamental changes are needed but
instead you try to make minor textual changes in order to address some
specific comments. ISTM that what's needed here is to go back to the
beginning and state what the intended purpose of this document is and then
we can discuss whether (1) that is a useful purpose and (2) whether it
achieves it. Until then, I don';t think new revisions or textual changes
are helpful.

-Ekr

-Ekr

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 6:06 AM Niels ten Oever <mail@nielstenoever.net>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Change log:
>
> - further qualified the conclusion and the discussion to reflect the
> differences in opinion,
> - integrated the suggestions made by Stephane.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Best,
>
> Niels
>
> On 9/28/19 3:01 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Human Rights Protocol Considerations RG
> of the IRTF.
> >
> >         Title           : Notes on networking standards and politics
> >         Author          : Niels ten Oever
> >       Filename        : draft-irtf-hrpc-political-07.txt
> >       Pages           : 14
> >       Date            : 2019-09-28
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    The IETF cannot ordain what standards or protocols are to be used on
> >    networks, but the standards development process in the IETF does have
> >    an impact on society through its normative standards setting process.
> >    This document aims to bring about a better understanding on the
> >    political nature of standards and protocols.  Among other things, the
> >    IETF's work affects what is perceived as technologically possible and
> >    useful where networking technologies are being deployed, and its
> >    standards reflect what is considered by the technical community to be
> >    feasible and good practice.  Whereas there might not be agreement
> >    among the Internet protocol community on the specific political
> >    nature of the technological development process and its outputs, it
> >    is generally agreed that standards and protocols are both products of
> >    a political process, and they can also be used for political means.
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-hrpc-political/
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-07
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-07
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-hrpc-political-07
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > hrpc mailing list
> > hrpc@irtf.org
> > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc
> >
>
> --
> Niels ten Oever
> Researcher and PhD Candidate
> DATACTIVE Research Group
> University of Amsterdam
>
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