Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames
James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> Fri, 10 May 2013 19:41 UTC
Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B632E21F8FAF for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.561
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.561 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U4I2acjZIMFS for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F2C21F8F2C for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1UatBo-0008F2-Bj for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 10 May 2013 19:41:12 +0000
Resent-Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 19:41:12 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1UatBo-0008F2-Bj@frink.w3.org>
Received: from maggie.w3.org ([128.30.52.39]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <jasnell@gmail.com>) id 1UatBc-0008E1-Kz for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 10 May 2013 19:41:00 +0000
Received: from mail-oa0-f43.google.com ([209.85.219.43]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_ARCFOUR_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <jasnell@gmail.com>) id 1UatBb-0003zz-LZ for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Fri, 10 May 2013 19:41:00 +0000
Received: by mail-oa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id o6so5397638oag.16 for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Jh5By/SlcZPiMOpC3nDRTG1URwyaSEQiezrv29eQD+U=; b=ZT6pSTPNqmPTsItezWut/swo5CFSy0RtQsjRSJBTQ3orEtiAX2gyoAQdl9WYv90lSQ dxopMBaAKxnA481J6Ev6mT5Xl4Pwy3YDMBj5vMHB8cqpSdwi2YILCIMxQeQKcRa/GVJs v1pHWKvGWQYsP2MQK/cJ9/fBFcb57hJrHxfMkOGhvpiz358UW1fRXfziqACmHDPIK6kH EqqXOgcMnfYjapWMcKUi1SI87A83aLu/V2uxIx/KBhiG7GiZ5NRnHYuvJE8sIrzGDhbp os9N1sm2/IF4VA0a5sjNzNJyrcmih5CGP7AjamvQu9PQ11iCiyr8HND4+vXRAXPRil1G kT7g==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.60.55.231 with SMTP id v7mr7617111oep.135.1368214833812; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.60.3.137 with HTTP; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.60.3.137 with HTTP; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CABkgnnX=bFRg39aK6Ba4XzcKEz84oyt7GL+US7zHw+wonQve6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABP7RbewOju850tE2GV2U4JZVawGTFGoWoYF7LaofGdKcXYqZg@mail.gmail.com> <CABkgnnXZY7aSRmVb-GsfDVpq3+cNXRh_MeUipWGVHUwQreUV6g@mail.gmail.com> <CABP7RbcUuYVG9v6aoC1m1qkHw6M2xb4eOzY32QgieKDznDZefg@mail.gmail.com> <CABkgnnX=bFRg39aK6Ba4XzcKEz84oyt7GL+US7zHw+wonQve6g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 12:40:33 -0700
Message-ID: <CABP7RbeciZeqz=YQKDSQ3gEe-UUXZn_YigdQiB7y5QTiPC2=_w@mail.gmail.com>
From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Cc: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e01176889255c6004dc62571a"
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.219.43; envelope-from=jasnell@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa0-f43.google.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-2.648, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1UatBb-0003zz-LZ 8a74bbbb9f2667e639c27dab7724a213
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/CABP7RbeciZeqz=YQKDSQ3gEe-UUXZn_YigdQiB7y5QTiPC2=_w@mail.gmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/17931
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>
On May 10, 2013 12:00 PM, "Martin Thomson" <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 10 May 2013 11:29, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Martin Thomson > > <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 9 May 2013 10:26, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> Recommendation: Adding a short statement that a PROTOCOL_ERROR MUST be > >>> returned if a frame contains more bytes than what is expressly > >>> specified in the frame definition. > >> > >> That would prevent extension unnecessarily. And it doesn't do > >> anything to improve security. > > > > How does it prevent extension? If someone wants to extend an existing > > frame to include new data, it can define a new frame type. > > I can't extend GOAWAY. Who knows, maybe I might want to be more > specific about the streams that will be processed prior to session > end. > If there are non-theoretical reasons for why one may wish to extend a frame like goaway, then extensibility should be expressly included in the design as part of the format. - James > >> When you want to harden security, you need to consider what equivalent > >> options are available to an attacker. If I wanted to send you more > >> data, then I will use DATA frames. Unless you can find a way to > >> curtail DATA I see no reason to clamp down here. > > > > In my experience, it's generally better to limit the exploitation options ;-) > > It doesn't limit options in any meaningful way. This would be > analogous to double-deadlocking the front door while leaving the > adjacent windows wide open. I know that the extension argument isn't > especially strong, for a range of reasons, but I see no point in > over-engineering this aspect.
- Design Issue: Overlong Frames James M Snell
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames Martin Thomson
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames Martin Thomson
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames James M Snell
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames James M Snell
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames William Chan (ιζΊζ)
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames James M Snell
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames James M Snell
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames Martin Thomson
- Re: Design Issue: Overlong Frames James M Snell