Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-jaju-httpbis-zstd-window-size-00.txt

Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Tue, 05 March 2024 05:30 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=ietf.org@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39F5C14F6E3 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 4 Mar 2024 21:30:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.856
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.856 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=w3.org header.b="BijrHka2"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=w3.org header.b="fU2Jntj0"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b="iUtQzN58"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="DuO4h6ru"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ylr-HGbvBIkP for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 4 Mar 2024 21:30:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lyra.w3.org (lyra.w3.org [128.30.52.18]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09369C1519A9 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietf.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2024 21:30:38 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=w3.org; s=s1; h=Subject:Content-Type:Cc:To:From:Date:References:In-Reply-To: Message-Id:MIME-Version:Reply-To; bh=GJReJG7nil7wH4dG0oUxH0+yXWn+DWNmEiHzfPyncXg=; b=BijrHka2VRZlzG96qG8WKhQIna Fmwads/fVf0VPOxeKrfbZZz+q77tKXDXrLIIrG/r/wGQ1yctni+fkqcGJT3YozB0dwg+E209urW2U o3woi7TGmyBJZGxsxthak/lVNRtfaPP2GPtmenCOoqZQXo5sHYN7smQFCacYLIqrOD8gSJExudfwu 7lvstsjr2Zr+M0hGyOQvnw7a5b9dYlQrwAC3ymCGq7HB0GBA67IhnWKV3NhNGjqlfbMpFyXtCJGhr hbTNXpB1j5ewkOY+9S56OwT2wZZwG5zOY3WeGQSVF0MNUNEQGOb2D6+RpGCT7a0xz296GCGPwsHPj RDkPeTCA==;
Received: from lists by lyra.w3.org with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1rhNNg-001ph0-5k for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 05:30:24 +0000
Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2024 05:30:24 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1rhNNg-001ph0-5k@lyra.w3.org>
Received: from puck.w3.org ([34.196.82.207]) by lyra.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from <mt@lowentropy.net>) id 1rhNNd-001pfz-Se for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 05:30:22 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=w3.org; s=s1; h=Content-Type:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:References:In-Reply-To: Message-Id:MIME-Version:Reply-To; bh=GJReJG7nil7wH4dG0oUxH0+yXWn+DWNmEiHzfPyncXg=; t=1709616621; x=1710480621; b=fU2Jntj0eUgDTkfYvHWTOZ5KTkofJRFFduGPCV2aLi+jx8UFyUJE+RQQh2/v+ksap2Vh/3k2Ui7 U0EfbAzmc0uEHitxRyyE0XGP3qU5S8LoAA2chGavG9JvP1KSyQksqHCp8EGENO+IgBZGzzf6yzeIR lrhU6iehFnPrPM1JPLtpKgq1LNOteZJheG76+dy4sM3+O5rOU3X0xDXivMbxJ9CI3SMIBL8Fk/reu livx5wJF438Ph5rbvS2vK8ZvSC6mfPusV0A27lqnv9xxHeBD1MRJ/rFWImd2DKpkSP2es+AsCKjY6 89ZtHOtn9QycF4JdtLBQ4h4N+FWSlV6tc57g==;
Received-SPF: pass (puck.w3.org: domain of lowentropy.net designates 64.147.123.156 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.147.123.156; envelope-from=mt@lowentropy.net; helo=wfhigh5-smtp.messagingengine.com;
Received: from wfhigh5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.156]) by puck.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <mt@lowentropy.net>) id 1rhNNd-004jAO-0I for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 05:30:21 +0000
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailfhigh.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E271718000AF; Tue, 5 Mar 2024 00:30:16 -0500 (EST)
Received: from imap41 ([10.202.2.91]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 05 Mar 2024 00:30:17 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1709616616; x= 1709703016; bh=GJReJG7nil7wH4dG0oUxH0+yXWn+DWNmEiHzfPyncXg=; b=i UtQzN58brw8tIIJPRH33u0SXO4mToQVChirokqG+XZ0Avp3wXwugCzLnhyu5S4H3 D87DiY4uKMLyQFkYIElttrj02oroZy/wlf4BEtMCSTh0kG4GSj6Rnwn0FH9xiEPX 0ro2KKg3nR3G7NuL0LggZGoz/s9evvEEWqZESDwlk/1Gm7XA934Fp7Nkn5FO8qLB d9v3W7p8iK93z0u+b5HBeGRFv2hjZZmyPhojh43G8mtzVVnsqo7Q7zxHM3mPVn2t Hu6P3BMffL1zBAWcYmEqPKTmk4z89AIoQyjz+zIZM/hD07y4GhRFFTDoCBXXUIlH 6U9DFxMADIkz4Kx5VVFiA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; t=1709616616; x=1709703016; bh=GJReJG7nil7wH4dG0oUxH0+yXWn+ DWNmEiHzfPyncXg=; b=DuO4h6ruTU3ZxTjukG+KEK8Ftdrzb2qLiZqGSV5N2jCs f2KEOiKoyLjJ+0lv5J5PCuVGPICjS52NJaW6hIcp3QLTbj7BPn9wfTlxCZe9Mjdp sPlxBRbmsIGIUku63W2AYiXCqpXbcS+B1GPam/8DuZv2yfEWXf+7WmuUeCthdX4A aChHQdO6ouVu/4Fje9NpYZSQZNZEf+D9vdql8X3sj3hYzDtHCRHm1LfI8vvDQp/n JKfU4J+EJJxCltPCPQGaXXbpaMaixznkiVdjt6Xm0iwO7gAR3KyP6nNumnYY/z0z 1LVWeqfhY5BxJzD+iljD5U1uaI+fFSk1OkY8iw4psQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:6K3mZegwmLNABMnXe--rpdiCKolRJaQN0OlOvtxQIqFolCrKAFj-hw> <xme:6K3mZfBek8G_MXhLZImkVzQ93gyg9hqeYpEZ1cPoZ2S8eUUzm53JQB5r9aaN5X8aO zUjcroPv3Vq_9I6Iuw>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrheekgdekudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtsehttd ertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhho figvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduleeufedthfegieeiie ekkeejvdejgfevudffgeefvdffleevfeekudeiieekleenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigv pedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvg ht
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:6K3mZWFkq2-BOyzYjHT_oEamUjbNnAcdWUv4RH4EShfzjLSvX9eOWw> <xmx:6K3mZXRPeHRh6-iORBCKSbE6w4H052Y-QpOUCdF7xYmNddVZ6fL3zg> <xmx:6K3mZbzQz8FXK75I1EaRXi0M570BxPTLfpzGskAdwEjkESRnJY-QDg> <xmx:6K3mZUpV9l_mUpKuKB0plhILqKpe6CilZ1PoYtaJi7hCBe4I_ymsXGtUoik>
Feedback-ID: ic129442d:Fastmail
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0E9452340080; Tue, 5 Mar 2024 00:30:16 -0500 (EST)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-208-g3f1d79aedb-fm-20240301.002-g3f1d79ae
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <5b344efe-8283-41e2-92b6-bb7d8f19c329@betaapp.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHARgnJUP_7-y9fm-MWVGcMEoq-RibaNaLidHShwdC0LcSsATA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <170959112780.45035.16361642801992496075@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAHARgnKx0eFcY5u4sOybbs6YcDFLOPbzBFF4DkP0z3KUt5uHkw@mail.gmail.com> <675f9437-5873-47fb-8865-326b32029aa3@betaapp.fastmail.com> <CAHARgnJUP_7-y9fm-MWVGcMEoq-RibaNaLidHShwdC0LcSsATA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2024 16:29:55 +1100
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: "nidhijaju@google.com" <nidhijaju@google.com>
Cc: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Content-Type: text/plain
X-W3C-Hub-DKIM-Status: validation passed: (address=mt@lowentropy.net domain=lowentropy.net), signature is good
X-W3C-Hub-DKIM-Status: validation passed: (address=mt@lowentropy.net domain=messagingengine.com), signature is good
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.1
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, DMARC_PASS=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_DB=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_IRR=-3, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: puck.w3.org 1rhNNd-004jAO-0I e83e1dc129b543075b7280640f02d990
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-jaju-httpbis-zstd-window-size-00.txt
Archived-At: <https://www.w3.org/mid/5b344efe-8283-41e2-92b6-bb7d8f19c329@betaapp.fastmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/51857
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <https://www.w3.org/email/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On Tue, Mar 5, 2024, at 15:55, Nidhi Jaju wrote:
> The part that you mentioned about decoders being able to support a 
> different limit was added as an attempt to explain that deployments of 
> zstd operating in a private environment that don't care about 
> interoperability should negotiate it out-of-band. Maybe I could change 
> that text to something along the lines of:
>   "Decoders that wish to support a lower limit and encoders that wish 
> to emit
>   frames requiring a larger window size MUST negotiate the limit 
> out-of-band."

My email was a veiled suggestion that you delete the paragraph.

More generally, if you want to do something that is not the standard, then it is not the standard.  If you manage to make a private arrangement to do something other than the standard that's nice, but that doesn't need the blessing of the IETF.

However, if you make a private arrangement to do something other than the standard, but use the standard codepoints, that carries a pretty serious risk of damaging interoperability.  Private stuff escapes confinement.  We should not encourage people to do that (even if they regularly do).