For discussion: scope for AltSvc and ORIGIN bis efforts

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Wed, 04 November 2020 22:37 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6C33A10AD for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:37:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.748
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=bV1aJL6j; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Ai6uk7BB
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vNiQS3h5YuDn for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:37:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lyra.w3.org (lyra.w3.org [128.30.52.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4280E3A10A9 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:37:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lists by lyra.w3.org with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1kaRP2-0001tS-MD for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 04 Nov 2020 22:37:16 +0000
Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 22:37:16 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1kaRP2-0001tS-MD@lyra.w3.org>
Received: from titan.w3.org ([128.30.52.76]) by lyra.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1kaRP1-0001ju-8g for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 04 Nov 2020 22:37:15 +0000
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]) by titan.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1kaROz-0002jt-7j for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Wed, 04 Nov 2020 22:37:15 +0000
Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23214B70; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 17:36:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 04 Nov 2020 17:36:59 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h=from :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :message-id:date:cc:to; s=fm1; bh=Tn7Dm0h6IiVZRnX2IItnNjUey5k7uU tXyLE5qhR/1sk=; b=bV1aJL6jCeMOOHm9ARhmhGuM9Dq7LVpQFUvAtnpG54cAjt fRTA2ydzl/AcC1ZlZxKM53UyLCmU7HWUU86U287UylxdPS+rJvQ80BhZNMUucDFC H0NtlcJshF9MrgnL6XJXYzXnBIjDxIsjKVYb1OleKAWH0ju7YGeT/f7zz1yRpf+/ bqfbDC9H9BmKUD/UU5Xq436B5Fwk3vX9KmWoAlWqH0Fvpl8RCPdSdNARoKU5/QDD Ojo054ojuGgL/cWNQ8VAJxxdFSCQjr1jEphHmBBL/WKNy+Q7RW8uMRjXApdPxNrc MFpDryB0z3lEZ8a50eFM5l8HuFxkAfOoLCt8NDsw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Tn7Dm0 h6IiVZRnX2IItnNjUey5k7uUtXyLE5qhR/1sk=; b=Ai6uk7BBasNUWs6aG7cBJz h2SH6ym2r7DpDlt16SUOviGR8I4RLLzVU0OfqLedVY0+zsSRWpxxbzIP86rHyOBI 4L0EA+iwHacWqEHs7Djc5LBuTCKq7JS6BvAJb4k0BNfi3p7MJmOTJOx6fssCeIRV Qic6iyvuAvx2HCgR5DZ1vHYGXHFzJXFUjuT7Dd0hxUdfA+0xk7P3RvhwIDXrjhTp JjKUicEJIrxQRrE+BDLwx9t1MITacFUtfvDyFBqirynmrE0MjFfG2+F80OCPGLfR uQSHAC5H3taJRRJ1FD1+aea7x8+TPiBc3cOlrqey60Paz1x1KI4zR5hQ6xn1Yezg ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:Ci2jX1iV0HM_vGLj2U4U5E7aA5jkzTmYA3j3Ga4d8piJG9Cqyr-R2g> <xme:Ci2jX6DCEvtILHhNNNLDLogpYpglSuWYXUq8cPvIs52AszJFMUmDfuxKeJq-uA5Gg GNAguVQf-eDbXddow>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedruddtiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurf hrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpefhtgfgggfukfffvffosehtqhhmtdhhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeforghrkhcupfhothht ihhnghhhrghmuceomhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepue ekieduudefhefhudegudekteduhedtgeeffffhgfduleeuhefhvdfgtdelkeehnecuffho mhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepudduledrudejrdduheekrddvhedunecuve hluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhnohhtsehm nhhothdrnhgvth
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:Ci2jX1H2uOSek0F1Z56le37gwCarL2vdL4PJ4oYShuev1Tn2IB2Fdw> <xmx:Ci2jX6QSnSVELZZ31jWJEOPdL_EzU_ook7jpSuGhmvg87N0oBXIVIA> <xmx:Ci2jXywMFMbU6SJlalLPub335CJPsz9t1p2XjT6nqWKE-96X_R88tA> <xmx:Ci2jX9_yS8-MY9D9IR04Z4yGNYq_EMpQuiRaP5O3pbVYzE6AR0ELzw>
Received: from [192.168.7.30] (119-17-158-251.77119e.mel.static.aussiebb.net [119.17.158.251]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2C57B306467E; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 17:36:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\))
Message-Id: <BBA5F9B9-7788-41DA-853E-FADD7EF20B24@mnot.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 09:36:54 +1100
Cc: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
To: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4)
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.24; envelope-from=mnot@mnot.net; helo=wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.8
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_DB=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_IRR=-3, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: titan.w3.org 1kaROz-0002jt-7j 99ca0ef299534647d0b47a9bbbbab032
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: For discussion: scope for AltSvc and ORIGIN bis efforts
Archived-At: <https://www.w3.org/mid/BBA5F9B9-7788-41DA-853E-FADD7EF20B24@mnot.net>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/38163
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <https://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

At the interim, we discussed Mike's draft to revise some HTTP/2 extensions to work with HTTP/3:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bishop-httpbis-altsvc-quic

After discussion, the most viable way forward seemed to be to revise both of those documents to include HTTP/2 and HTTP/3 mechanisms, rather than just creating a "patch" RFC that updates them for HTTP/3.

The Chairs support doing so, but want to see a well-defined scope of work for the effort.

As a starting point, we believe that the following should be in-scope for the effort:

* Porting the ORIGIN and ALTSVC frames to HTTP/3
* Incorporating errata
* Editorial improvements

Other changes would be out of scope. In particular, anything that is incompatible with the current definition or use of these frames in HTTP/2 would not be suitable.

However, improvements in how they are specified could be in-scope, provided that there is strong consensus to include them.

Comments on this scope -- including proposals for additions -- are welcome; we'll issue a Call for Adoption if we can get to a general agreement about that.

Cheers,

Mark and Tommy