Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header
Mike West <mkwst@google.com> Mon, 12 June 2023 13:30 UTC
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From: Mike West <mkwst@google.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2023 15:29:35 +0200
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To: Caleb Queern <cqueern@gmail.com>
Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, Shivan Kaul Sahib <shivankaulsahib@gmail.com>, "public-webappsec@w3.org" <public-webappsec@w3.org>
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Subject: Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header
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On Mon 12. Jun 2023 at 15:22 Caleb Queern <cqueern@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Shivan, > > I think one big difference between Off-The-Record and Clear-Site-Data is >> that Off-The-Record is preventative, while Clear-Site-Data is sent after >> the fact >> > > If I'm not mistaken Clear-Site-Data can be sent "along the way" from the > first navigation so that user agents don't store anything in storage or > record the site visit in history etc. as well. > A small not: Clear-Site-Data does not offer developers the ability to clear browser history. It offers the ability to clear already web-visible storage, as well as cache. My concern is that these seem to have overlapping functionality and after > more than a decade of adding new security headers for developers to think > about, there's only so much we can reasonably expect them to consider (and > leading to compensatory efforts like Mike's Baseline Header > https://github.com/mikewest/baseline-header ). > > Our options might be: > a) agree on Off-The-Record header, have browsers implement it, educate > devs on OTR usage > b) educate devs on CSD usage > > I'll defer to the broader group of course. > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 1:55 AM Shivan Kaul Sahib < > shivankaulsahib@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hey Caleb, >> >> On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 at 14:58, Caleb Queern <cqueern@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> This feels very similar to what <ahem> some have said about the >>> Clear-Site-Data header both in its utility and risks. >>> >> >> I think one big difference between Off-The-Record and Clear-Site-Data is >> that Off-The-Record is preventative, while Clear-Site-Data is sent after >> the fact. Also, in the case of Clear-Site-Data, the website specifies >> what to clear, while with Off-The-Record the website leaves it up to the >> user agent. >> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 4:52 PM David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> This sounds very useful for the domestic violence resources use case, >>>> but at the same time I could imagine malware websites abusing it to erase >>>> traces of how a machine got infected. Would it be possible to get user >>>> consent per origin for this? >>>> David >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 2:42 PM Eric Lawrence < >>>> Eric.Lawrence@microsoft.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> This generally seems useful. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I can foresee some user confusion if a user encountered the >>>>> interstitial page when visiting the target site in InPrivate/Incognito >>>>> mode, but I also wouldn’t want to skip the interstitial page in those >>>>> privacy modes (because it could be abused as an oracle that would reveal to >>>>> the site whether a visitor is using a Private Mode already). >>>>> >>>>> In Chromium-based browsers, browser extensions are disabled by default >>>>> while in Private Mode. It does not look like you propose to disable >>>>> extensions from interacting with “Off-the-record” sites? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Shivan Kaul Sahib <shivankaulsahib@gmail.com> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 8, 2023 2:14 PM >>>>> *To:* public-webappsec@w3.org; HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org >>>>> > >>>>> *Subject:* Request-Off-The-Record Mode header >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You don't often get email from shivankaulsahib@gmail.com. Learn why >>>>> this is important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> >>>>> >>>>> Hi folks, this is a head's up and early request for feedback: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brave is shipping support for an HTTP response header sent by a >>>>> website that wants the client to treat the website as "off-the-record" i.e. >>>>> not store anything in storage, not record the site visit in history etc. >>>>> Kind of like incognito/private browsing mode but site-initiated and only >>>>> for a specific website. The header is simple: it would look like >>>>> `Request-OTR: 1`. Some details here: >>>>> https://brave.com/privacy-updates/26-request-off-the-record/#request-otr-header. Currently >>>>> we bootstrap for websites that have expressed interest in this (mainly >>>>> websites that have help resources for domestic violence victims, which was >>>>> the driving use-case) by preloading a list of websites into the browser, >>>>> but it would be nice to standardize the header. We're considering doing the >>>>> work in the HTTP WG at IETF: it's envisioned to be a simple header. >>>>> >>>>> I see that this idea was previously discussed in W3C WebAppSec: >>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webappsec/2015Sep/0016.html, >>>>> and there was a draft Mozilla spec: >>>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Automatic_Private_Browsing_Upgrades, >>>>> though as a CSP directive. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Happy to hear what people think. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- -mike
- Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Shivan Kaul Sahib
- RE: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Eric Lawrence
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header David Schinazi
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Martin Thomson
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Watson Ladd
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Anne van Kesteren
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Ángel
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Shivan Kaul Sahib
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Shivan Kaul Sahib
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Greg Wilkins
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Shivan Kaul Sahib
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Shivan Kaul Sahib
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Mike West
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Dennis Jackson
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Caleb Queern
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Mike West
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Caleb Queern
- Re: Request-Off-The-Record Mode header Shivan Kaul Sahib