Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragmentation
Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com> Thu, 25 November 2010 05:20 UTC
Return-Path: <gregw@webtide.com>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C043A6975 for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:20:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.771
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.206, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2znbjJtMyz5v for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:20:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35DC3A693A for <hybi@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:20:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: by gyb13 with SMTP id 13so293566gyb.31 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:21:29 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.90.80.18 with SMTP id d18mr2099189agb.31.1290662489325; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:21:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.236.42.204 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:21:29 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikzKLVT=kYKoc67rsZOaeP=0hKe8rkk7y8kuimH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <059.5b3c3b280c1320a26d9c11c25e067e06@tools.ietf.org> <AANLkTinE95cwFQjFWc3SYsWFYSiY4mu27oQpedYJGgDJ@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTikS+N4ZjhoRLgZv5yetD2LceWXO=KC2ksgbfySQ@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTimaRzGObYrTCB8p7qbvqUpPPhR-uErNRaV_wPzr@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTikzKLVT=kYKoc67rsZOaeP=0hKe8rkk7y8kuimH@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 16:21:29 +1100
Message-ID: <AANLkTin=WyioqKfD7Xo-1=Pa71259_q-+20WYhCJ7zRG@mail.gmail.com>
From: Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com>
To: Zhong Yu <zhong.j.yu@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Cc: hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragmentation
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 05:20:29 -0000
Zhong, I don't think anybody has suggested changing the WS API abstraction. It is and should remain a simple stream of complete messages. But it is an abstraction! which means that it is hiding the details of what actually happens underneath. There are some good technical reasons for supporting fragmentation below the API abstraction and we have had the discussions at great length to determine if these reasons are good enough to justify the increase in the complexity of the protocol level abstraction. The current consensus appears to be that fragmentation is a needed technical feature in the framing layer. While good reasons might be presented that may again change this consensus, I don't think the simplicity argument is one such reason. That case has already been made and failed. If you do have some new insights on the cost/benefit of fragmentation, then we should discuss them, but we do also need to be very careful that we don't go over ground that has already been well debated. And I repeat that I have not seen anybody advocate that fragmentation should be exposed in any way to via the WS API. regards On 24 November 2010 21:03, Zhong Yu <zhong.j.yu@gmail.com> wrote: > The most important thing I think is the abstraction WS provides to app > developers. Right now the abstraction is simple -- one message after > another. The simplicity is a good thing, if it is compromised I don't > know what websocket is supposed to be any more. Let's just kill > fragments and don't even think about any advanced features that depend > on it. Every message stays in one frame, even ones with unknown > lengths. > > - Zhong Yu > _______________________________________________ > hybi mailing list > hybi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi >
- [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragmentat… hybi issue tracker
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… hybi issue tracker
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Zhong Yu
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] thewebsocketprotocol #28 (new): Fragme… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] #28: Fragmentation hybi issue tracker