[i2rs] What to do with draft names
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Fri, 16 November 2012 20:50 UTC
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From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 20:50:43 -0000
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Subject: [i2rs] What to do with draft names
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Hi, Given the renaming of our efforts, I suggest that draft editors would do well to: - re-post the I-Ds with updated names as draft-foo-i2rs-bar - send a note to the Secretariat asking that draft-foo-irs-bar be shown as replaced by draft-foo-i2rs-bar Adrian Return-Path: <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD63521F8AD2 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:47:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i2KhZG6MEgTU for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:47:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE8021F8AC9 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:47:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.51] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19DED2334A2A; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:47:26 -0500 (EST) References: <20121115231740.32653.1891.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <02ed01cdc419$65b13070$31139150$@olddog.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <02ed01cdc419$65b13070$31139150$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <F86E0007-9A0D-4FB2-865B-A3AE4B194FF7@lucidvision.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A523) From: Thomas D Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:47:26 -0500 To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Cc: "<irs-discuss@ietf.org>" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 19:47:27 -0000 Just a reminder that there is a holiday for much of the week next w= eek, so please hold off on any comments until the week after lest they get l= ost. --Tom On Nov 16, 2012, at 11:42 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: > Heads up >=20 > Adrian >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org= ] >> On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> Sent: 15 November 2012 23:18 >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt >>=20 >> A new Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. >>=20 >>=20 >> Title : IRS Use Case for IP and Transport Workflows >> Author(s) : G. Mattson, et al >> Filename : draft-mattson-irs-usecase >> Pages : 8 >> Date : Nov. 15, 2012 >>=20 >> This document describes use-cases for IRS to provide a lightweight >> method for common management and control state for typical operations >> and workflows of multilayer networks involving both IP and sub-IP >> transport. IRS provides a lightweight, streaming interface between >> routing systems and external applications. By extending the IRS model >> to transport systems, multi-layer networks can be managed and used >> more efficiently. IRS may enable the integration of IP and transport >> maintenance workflows leading to a reduction in operational costs. >> IRS server having visibility into both Optical Transport and IP >> domains will also be able to make optimal use of transport >> infrastructure. >>=20 >>=20 >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt >>=20 >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>=20 >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 Return-Path: <lberger@labn.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D7821F84E4 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:41:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.715 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.715 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.131, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vYhWLd2DIoib for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from oproxy11-pub.bluehost.com (173-254-64-10.unifiedlayer.com [173.254.64.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E8B5821F84D8 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:41:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 542 invoked by uid 0); 16 Nov 2012 17:41:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy11.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2012 17:41:09 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:CC:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=onGwsg/pjPvMLX9a1KD33ACWCNFIrlxVOkA9oCInkVA=; b=FeqIJxPqlLmVfIN/ALyFf3ZKD2tsw9QCKqpiDpqcbr+nDtrIYfxt0LSnVYHnVSoKFyioZg79EH49armrrZhEEr0Sn/2OGdfJsuHzN9j1v7CFyXrqax3boo+u9CsNo+yI; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:52009 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from <lberger@labn.net>) id 1TZPuf-0006R7-41; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:41:09 -0700 Message-ID: <50A67AB0.4050307@labn.net> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:41:04 -0500 From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk References: <20121115231740.32653.1891.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <02ed01cdc419$65b13070$31139150$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <02ed01cdc419$65b13070$31139150$@olddog.co.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:41:39 -0000 Adrian, Authors, This document seems to omit the case where there is an IP based control plane on the transport gear. Is this intentional (or did I miss it)? It seems like this should be part of the the "Transport Workflow" use case... Lou On 11/16/2012 11:42 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Heads up > > Adrian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> Sent: 15 November 2012 23:18 >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt >> >> A new Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. >> >> >> Title : IRS Use Case for IP and Transport Workflows >> Author(s) : G. Mattson, et al >> Filename : draft-mattson-irs-usecase >> Pages : 8 >> Date : Nov. 15, 2012 >> >> This document describes use-cases for IRS to provide a lightweight >> method for common management and control state for typical operations >> and workflows of multilayer networks involving both IP and sub-IP >> transport. IRS provides a lightweight, streaming interface between >> routing systems and external applications. By extending the IRS model >> to transport systems, multi-layer networks can be managed and used >> more efficiently. IRS may enable the integration of IP and transport >> maintenance workflows leading to a reduction in operational costs. >> IRS server having visibility into both Optical Transport and IP >> domains will also be able to make optimal use of transport >> infrastructure. >> >> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > > Return-Path: <adrian@olddog.co.uk> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F4121F8661 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:42:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.849 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.250, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jadS4b6NZllM for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06DDA21F85ED for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qAGGgcc2018555 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:42:38 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qAGGgbv4018537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:42:37 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <irs-discuss@ietf.org> References: <20121115231740.32653.1891.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20121115231740.32653.1891.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:42:41 -0000 Message-ID: <02ed01cdc419$65b13070$31139150$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFpS3lZa9yBlMASVcWcMMmFFwfgIZi1m8cQ Content-Language: en-gb Subject: [irs-discuss] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:42:41 -0000 Heads up Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Sent: 15 November 2012 23:18 > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt > > A new Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : IRS Use Case for IP and Transport Workflows > Author(s) : G. Mattson, et al > Filename : draft-mattson-irs-usecase > Pages : 8 > Date : Nov. 15, 2012 > > This document describes use-cases for IRS to provide a lightweight > method for common management and control state for typical operations > and workflows of multilayer networks involving both IP and sub-IP > transport. IRS provides a lightweight, streaming interface between > routing systems and external applications. By extending the IRS model > to transport systems, multi-layer networks can be managed and used > more efficiently. IRS may enable the integration of IP and transport > maintenance workflows leading to a reduction in operational costs. > IRS server having visibility into both Optical Transport and IP > domains will also be able to make optimal use of transport > infrastructure. > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. Return-Path: <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F41621F872A for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:43:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.187 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.187 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FaqpQXABskmd for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82FCB21F8504 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90DF20C82; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:43:22 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 33tCc5PFCU-M; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:43:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7736F20C70; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:43:22 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1E2F322D44DD; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:43:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:43:25 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> To: irs-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20121116084325.GA2361@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: irs-discuss@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: [irs-discuss] [j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de: 2nd wg last call on interfaces / ip / routing data models] X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:43:33 -0000 --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I am forwarding this here since IRS people may want to have a second look at the IP routing data model currently being finalized in the NETMOD working group. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 <http://www.jacobs-university.de/> --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (212.201.44.23) by SHUBCAS04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.128) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.2.318.4; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:40:19 +0100 Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94ADC20C87; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:40:22 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gmn6lknoKxyr; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:40:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3947520C84; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:40:22 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id AD91422D4463; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:40:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:40:24 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> To: <netmod@ietf.org> Subject: 2nd wg last call on interfaces / ip / routing data models Message-ID: <20121116084024.GA2302@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Return-Path: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: SHUBCAS04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AVStamp-Mailbox: MSFTFF;1;0;0 0 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, this is the start of the 2nd WG last call on the following set of documents: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-08 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-ip-cfg-07 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-06 A related document, the YANG version of the interface type and AFN/SAFI IANA registries, had no issues raised during 1st WG last call and has not changed: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-iana-if-type-04 Please review the documents and raise any issues you might discover by opening a thread on the mailing list. Editorial fixes can be sent directly to the document editors. Please indicate your support by *Friday, November 30, 2012*. We are not only interested in receiving defect reports, we are equally interested in statements of the form: "I have reviewed I-D XYZ and I found no issues" "I have implemented the data model in I-D XYZ" "I am implementing the data model in I-D XYZ" "I am considering to implement the data model in I-D XYZ" /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 <http://www.jacobs-university.de/> --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7-- Return-Path: <tnadeau@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E34021F849A for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:24:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j8Qlrvol+zQz for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og109.obsmtp.com (exprod7og109.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.171]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA6021F8475 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob109.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUKJ0GVWSfx/SeAYq7fLolIZwALuEc58W@postini.com; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:55 PST Received: from P-CLDFE01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.59) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:21:28 -0800 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:21:28 -0800 Received: from tx2outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (65.55.88.15) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:48 -0800 Received: from mail65-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.235) by TX2EHSOBE002.bigfish.com (10.9.40.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:21:26 +0000 Received: from mail65-tx2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail65-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B40E1A0122 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:21:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.197; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:CH1PRD0511HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -23 X-BigFish: PS-23(zz98dI9371I1432Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz8275ch1033IL17326ah8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25he5bhf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh1155h) Received: from mail65-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail65-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 1352823684453087_24171; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:21:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS005.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.240]) by mail65-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67FE6A0063; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:21:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0511HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.197) by TX2EHSMHS005.bigfish.com (10.9.99.105) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:21:23 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0511MB420.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.9.137]) by CH1PRD0511HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.159.39]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.004; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:21:22 +0000 From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net> To: Shane Amante <shane@castlepoint.net> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] Now you're all awake! Thread-Index: Ac3Bn9Y5Hh6s2viqTbmPXB6mEaccAwAF7rMAAADWnrA= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:21:22 +0000 Message-ID: <4B1A3AFF-7800-4E63-9D51-8A082888F858@juniper.net> References: <03ba01cdc19f$daef7760$90ce6620$@olddog.co.uk>, <43A3C76D-E3E8-4EF3-B511-A0DCF918B4DF@castlepoint.net> In-Reply-To: <43A3C76D-E3E8-4EF3-B511-A0DCF918B4DF@castlepoint.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [166.137.144.155] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%CASTLEPOINT.NET$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%OLDDOG.CO.UK$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Now you're all awake! X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:24:20 -0000 we should also include the corresponding topology use cases. Tom=20 On Nov 13, 2012, at 8:57 AM, "Shane Amante" <shane@castlepoint.net> wrote: >=20 > On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: >> Can we have some constructive discussion about which use cases to includ= e in the >> charter and which ones to exclude. >>=20 >> I am pretty sure I heard the BoF say that they wanted to reduce the scop= e by >> cutting down on the use cases, and as I said at the meeting I am worried= that >> this just means that each person wants to limit the scope their favorite= use >> case. So we will only get victory if there is considerable convergence o= n what >> the favorite is. >>=20 >> Thoughts? >=20 > I would like to offer potentially narrowing the scope to use cases to tho= se described in: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-irs-bgp-usecases-00 > ... and in Sections 2 through 4 of: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-irs-use-case-00 > (To be completely fair, draft-white did appear /first/ in the I-D archive= s, but IMO it's good to see that independent draft authors share similar ne= eds :-). >=20 > My reason for suggesting this are as follows: > a) If one takes a step back and looks at overall "SDN" landscape, Inter-= Domain seems to not be visible on the radar (particularly for Openflow), fo= r now. This makes sense given Inter-Domain is hard problem to solve, given= the legitimate concerns that raises wrt authentication/trust boundaries, e= tc. Furthermore, the use cases described in I-D's, above, are about readin= g, digesting and then manipulating BGP characteristics /inside of/ one AS (= sidestepping those thorny issues) ... however, clearly once information is = injected into BGP it will get carried across AS boundaries, whose propertie= s are already understood. IMO, this solves a need that other SDN approache= s have not (yet, if ever). > b) When looking at BGP, as a whole, it seems like there may be a few dif= ferent dimensions of the BGP protocol that might be a useful starting place= for the initial scope of the I2RS work. Namely, BGP is a protocol whose o= peration depends on policies -- specifically, routing policies that are lar= gely defined offboard routers, but that need to be applied consistently acr= oss the _entire_ network of routers. As one example, think of the need to = classify some set of interfaces as belonging to "customers" vs. "peers" and= , after that, applying different routing policies against those classes of = BGP sessions. Another example is here: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-irs-bgp-usecases-01#section-4.3 > ... where an operator needs to know which subset of routers are "Route Re= flectors" in order to apply appropriate policy consistently on all of them,= (in that case: defining RT's to filter routes send toward legacy PE's). I= MO, getting an early start on these routing policies and defining the seman= tics of how/where they apply to a subset of network elements in the network= is extremely valuable and, ultimately, would benefit all future use cases = of I2RS. > c) Finally, as I noted in my presentation at IETF 85, BGP policy represe= nts the overwhelming majority of configuration on routers and a substantial= amount of the ongoing 'touches' to routers. Thus, it makes sense to have = a standardized, programmatic access to read and write such information on r= outers. >=20 > Finally, as an operator, I can certainly say that optimizing control over= BGP *just Intra-AS* would be of a _substantial_ benefit. >=20 > Just my $0.02, >=20 > -shane > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 Return-Path: <shane@castlepoint.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCBB421F871A for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:57:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qyfXEwkHE0tZ for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.friendswithtools.org (unknown [64.78.239.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8426221F86D3 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:57:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from dspam (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.friendswithtools.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 637D220F1 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:57:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.9.0.10] (web.hollyman.com [64.78.239.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.friendswithtools.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 260E71A4B; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:57:22 -0700 (MST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Shane Amante <shane@castlepoint.net> In-Reply-To: <03ba01cdc19f$daef7760$90ce6620$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:57:22 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <43A3C76D-E3E8-4EF3-B511-A0DCF918B4DF@castlepoint.net> References: <03ba01cdc19f$daef7760$90ce6620$@olddog.co.uk> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Tue Nov 13 08:57:23 2012 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 1.0000 X-DSPAM-Improbability: 1 in 98689409 chance of being spam X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0023 X-DSPAM-Signature: 50a26de3199631676816196 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, routers+#+that, 0.40000, draft+white, 0.40000, are+Route, 0.40000, there+#+#+#+on, 0.40000, BGP+#+represents, 0.40000, routers+#+#+#+amount, 0.40000, programmatic+#+#+#+and, 0.40000, offboard+#+but, 0.40000, benefit+#+#+#+cases, 0.40000, problem+#+solve, 0.40000, particularly+for, 0.40000, what+the, 0.40000, back+#+#+at, 0.40000, early+#+#+these, 0.40000, be+#+a, 0.40000, that+case, 0.40000, would+#+#+#+use, 0.40000, Reflectors+in, 0.40000, here+#+an, 0.40000, subset+#+#+elements, 0.40000, case+#+#+will, 0.40000, approaches+#+#+yet, 0.40000, that+are, 0.40000, a+need, 0.40000, those+#+of, 0.40000, it's+#+#+#+that, 0.40000, thorny+#+however, 0.40000 Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Now you're all awake! X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:57:28 -0000 On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: > Can we have some constructive discussion about which use cases to = include in the > charter and which ones to exclude. >=20 > I am pretty sure I heard the BoF say that they wanted to reduce the = scope by > cutting down on the use cases, and as I said at the meeting I am = worried that > this just means that each person wants to limit the scope their = favorite use > case. So we will only get victory if there is considerable convergence = on what > the favorite is. >=20 > Thoughts? I would like to offer potentially narrowing the scope to use cases to = those described in: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-irs-bgp-usecases-00 ... and in Sections 2 through 4 of: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-irs-use-case-00 (To be completely fair, draft-white did appear /first/ in the I-D = archives, but IMO it's good to see that independent draft authors share = similar needs :-). My reason for suggesting this are as follows: a) If one takes a step back and looks at overall "SDN" landscape, = Inter-Domain seems to not be visible on the radar (particularly for = Openflow), for now. This makes sense given Inter-Domain is hard problem = to solve, given the legitimate concerns that raises wrt = authentication/trust boundaries, etc. Furthermore, the use cases = described in I-D's, above, are about reading, digesting and then = manipulating BGP characteristics /inside of/ one AS (sidestepping those = thorny issues) ... however, clearly once information is injected into = BGP it will get carried across AS boundaries, whose properties are = already understood. IMO, this solves a need that other SDN approaches = have not (yet, if ever). b) When looking at BGP, as a whole, it seems like there may be a few = different dimensions of the BGP protocol that might be a useful starting = place for the initial scope of the I2RS work. Namely, BGP is a protocol = whose operation depends on policies -- specifically, routing policies = that are largely defined offboard routers, but that need to be applied = consistently across the _entire_ network of routers. As one example, = think of the need to classify some set of interfaces as belonging to = "customers" vs. "peers" and, after that, applying different routing = policies against those classes of BGP sessions. Another example is = here: = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-irs-bgp-usecases-01#section-4.3 ... where an operator needs to know which subset of routers are "Route = Reflectors" in order to apply appropriate policy consistently on all of = them, (in that case: defining RT's to filter routes send toward legacy = PE's). IMO, getting an early start on these routing policies and = defining the semantics of how/where they apply to a subset of network = elements in the network is extremely valuable and, ultimately, would = benefit all future use cases of I2RS. c) Finally, as I noted in my presentation at IETF 85, BGP policy = represents the overwhelming majority of configuration on routers and a = substantial amount of the ongoing 'touches' to routers. Thus, it makes = sense to have a standardized, programmatic access to read and write such = information on routers. Finally, as an operator, I can certainly say that optimizing control = over BGP *just Intra-AS* would be of a _substantial_ benefit. Just my $0.02, -shane= Return-Path: <ietfc@btconnect.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DF921F85C9 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:24:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.491, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id twzStUNMMGLg for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from co9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co9ehsobe001.messaging.microsoft.com [207.46.163.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B7821F85C2 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail99-co9-R.bigfish.com (10.236.132.241) by CO9EHSOBE030.bigfish.com (10.236.130.93) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:24:19 +0000 Received: from mail99-co9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail99-co9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBFD4A0154; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:24:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.249.213; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:AM2PRD0710HT003.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -22 X-BigFish: PS-22(zz9371I542Mzz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h5a9h668h839hd24hf0ah1177h1179h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah139eh13b6h1441h1504h1537h304l1155h) Received: from mail99-co9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail99-co9 (MessageSwitch) id 1352820257489167_12374; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:24:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO9EHSMHS025.bigfish.com (unknown [10.236.132.253]) by mail99-co9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7574EE004A; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:24:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from AM2PRD0710HT003.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.249.213) by CO9EHSMHS025.bigfish.com (10.236.130.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:24:14 +0000 Received: from BY2PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.236.133) by pod51017.outlook.com (10.255.165.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.239.5; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:24:11 +0000 Message-ID: <000201cdc1b2$ced1ae40$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> To: Iftekhar Hussain <IHussain@infinera.com>, <irs-discuss@ietf.org> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk><2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net><50A11923.4040004@cisco.com><2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx><62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com><50A12F9F.2040803@gmail.com> <50A134E0.4090701@queuefull.net><CAFC8oMacomsSpTdvg8+cwny30TpcBTza1JiKhBtjinGEiPR0xA@mail.gmail.com><384438043-1352744136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1255086084-@b15.c23.bise6.blackberry> <D7D7AB44C06A2440B716F1F1F5E70AE53F9976E0@SV-EXDB-PROD2.infinera.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:19:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: [157.56.236.133] X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:24:30 -0000 ---- Original Message ----- From: "Iftekhar Hussain" <IHussain@infinera.com> To: <irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>; <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > Both I2RS and ITRS seem okay. Except that '2' gets misread as 'Z'. It is generally a bad idea to mix digits in with letters; all letters is the more human, the more natural, less likely to be copied or typed in error. I2RS is unlikely to have many existing direct matches in search engines simply because it is unnatural. Tom Petch > Regards, > Iftekhar Return-Path: <adrian@olddog.co.uk> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F360621F85E7 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:07:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wVE7TewR3po8 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:07:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (asmtp2.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.249]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B17F21F8573 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qADD7ZSJ020294 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:07:35 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([109.144.212.179]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qADD7Yji020277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:07:34 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:07:37 -0000 Message-ID: <03ba01cdc19f$daef7760$90ce6620$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac3Bn9Y5Hh6s2viqTbmPXB6mEaccAw== Content-Language: en-gb Subject: [irs-discuss] Now you're all awake! X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:07:47 -0000 Can we have some constructive discussion about which use cases to include in the charter and which ones to exclude. I am pretty sure I heard the BoF say that they wanted to reduce the scope by cutting down on the use cases, and as I said at the meeting I am worried that this just means that each person wants to limit the scope their favorite use case. So we will only get victory if there is considerable convergence on what the favorite is. Thoughts? Thanks, Adrian Return-Path: <mach.chen@huawei.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8B121F88E6 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:06:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.849 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.637, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iuAsX3eGQ8n5 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:06:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25BB21F88E0 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:06:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AMT18373; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:06:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:06:19 +0000 Received: from SZXEML431-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.39) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:06:22 +0000 Received: from SZXEML511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.192]) by szxeml431-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.39]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:05:48 +0800 From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com> To: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQABNjBQAAFSTIAAA0F7wAAeX6bA Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:05:48 +0000 Message-ID: <F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE22CAECAB9@SZXEML511-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE3801A181F216@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE3801A181F216@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.96.103] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: [irs-discuss] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFdoYXQncyBpbiBhIG5hbWU/?= X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:06:36 -0000 KzENCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KTWFjaA0KDQo+IC0tLS0t08q8/tStvP4tLS0tLQ0KPiC3orz+ yMs6IGlycy1kaXNjdXNzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzppcnMtZGlzY3Vzcy1ib3Vu Y2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+g0KPiCx7SBTaGFoLCBIaW1hbnNodQ0KPiC3osvNyrG85DogMjAxMsTq MTHUwjEzyNUgMTo0MA0KPiDK1bz+yMs6IGlycy1kaXNjdXNzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+INb3zOI6IFJl OiBbaXJzLWRpc2N1c3NdIFdoYXQncyBpbiBhIG5hbWU/DQo+IA0KPiBBZ3JlZS4NCj4gDQo+IEZh dm9yIEkyUlMgYXMgbmFtZS4uDQo+IA0KPiAvaGltYW5zaHUNCj4gDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwg TWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IGlycy1kaXNjdXNzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0 bzppcnMtZGlzY3Vzcy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbg0KPiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgUmF2ZWVuZHJh IFRvcnZpDQo+IFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTIsIDIwMTIgMTI6MjAgUE0NCj4gVG86 IFJvc3MgQ2FsbG9uOyBhZHJpYW5Ab2xkZG9nLmNvLnVrOyBpcnMtZGlzY3Vzc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0K PiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW2lycy1kaXNjdXNzXSBXaGF0J3MgaW4gYSBuYW1lPw0KPiANCj4gVXNp bmcgYWNyb255bSBvdGhlciB0aGFuICdJUlMnIG1ha2VzIHNlbnNlIHRvIG1lIGFzIGl0IGdpdmVz IGNsZWFuZXIgd2ViDQo+IHNlYXJjaCByZXN1bHRzLg0KPiBCZXN0LA0KPiBSYXZpDQo+IA0KPiBf X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBpcnMtZGlz Y3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gaXJzLWRpc2N1c3NAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pcnMtZGlzY3Vzcw0K Return-Path: <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5348221F8884 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:48:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1A-Zc3o5byYw for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97E921F84D5 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qAD3mgip029529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:48:42 -0600 Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (147.117.188.90) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se (147.117.20.181) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.279.1; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:48:41 -0500 Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:48:41 -0500 From: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com> To: "Senad.palislamovic" <senad.ietf@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQAAkBWdACGAOID//8kRXw== Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:48:40 +0000 Message-ID: <B7CA6248-9C78-4F59-86D7-EEEB72FB087A@ericsson.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net>, <6D21D337-2DE8-423D-8908-4A498438830D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6D21D337-2DE8-423D-8908-4A498438830D@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<adrian@olddog.co.uk>" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:48:47 -0000 Same here, I2IRS Regards, Jeff On Nov 12, 2012, at 18:09, "Senad.palislamovic" <senad.ietf@gmail.com> wrot= e: > +1 for I2RS >=20 > /senad >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Nov 12, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net> wrote: >=20 >> My first set of suggestions: >>=20 >> I2RS- interface 2 routing system. >>=20 >> IRNE - interface to routing network element. >> IRE - interface to routing element >> INE - interface to network element. >> APIRS - API to RS. >> APIRE >>=20 >> Ravi=20 >> On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote= : >>=20 >>> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I= 've had >>> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not = want to >>> spend any more time on this sort of thing. >>>=20 >>> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we = really >>> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used= for >>> something else) we need to find a solution soon. >>>=20 >>> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS= need to >>> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to= be >>> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibl= y reach a >>> serious conclusion quickly. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> irs-discuss mailing list >>> irs-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> irs-discuss mailing list >> irs-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <senad.ietf@gmail.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44DC521F87BF for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:08:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bvY2LXQ479WS for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-f44.google.com (mail-pa0-f44.google.com [209.85.220.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C1621F880A for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id fb11so4888426pad.31 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:08:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=Wf54lnOn7ZZ7MJ33Cyf4KRqWOr2AZ3bi36udYeG8UQs=; b=JkmFED1cdNKlcwwRpByMU4ZSzWPcTIticg536LCPercWpTvbG5dd8kJmtdLKl7OgfT DAkFKYvgQsKuFuRxqYU1EgVtS6yzivuqwBcfIN9r7BakbanFwKAonL+GFzjN3aE+FHAW AHEb3gC7i4CRHiWwtT/hGyQsY2ekoVOResegWeKY+tLOcrJTTwBPDw2HKQ6aeLWK8OEr YkV7XYzIlaMabIpfgr0Q1T4OIQ4LHMCmTaG0be0EcOf7zgewaWEToLMxH7zCJTd8USLO Wtv+tHtN6LBcLuWTNV70hnfLPcO1nE+YL1F65K4WEj5q2wnq04lG9eIfsQfbBVTdHzTL Yx8Q== Received: by 10.66.78.136 with SMTP id b8mr60437211pax.26.1352772536306; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.136.36.248] (mobile-198-228-208-183.mycingular.net. [198.228.208.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hc4sm5096420pbc.30.2012.11.12.18.08.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:08:55 -0800 (PST) References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <6D21D337-2DE8-423D-8908-4A498438830D@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9A405) From: "Senad.palislamovic" <senad.ietf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:05:17 -0800 To: Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net> Cc: "<adrian@olddog.co.uk>" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:08:57 -0000 +1 for I2RS /senad Sent from my iPhone On Nov 12, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net> wrote: > My first set of suggestions: >=20 > I2RS- interface 2 routing system. >=20 > IRNE - interface to routing network element. > IRE - interface to routing element > INE - interface to network element. > APIRS - API to RS. > APIRE >=20 > Ravi=20 > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: >=20 >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v= e had >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not wa= nt to >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. >>=20 >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we re= ally >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used f= or >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. >>=20 >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS n= eed to >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to b= e >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly r= each a >> serious conclusion quickly. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Adrian >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> irs-discuss mailing list >> irs-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <IHussain@infinera.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7774321F882E; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:04:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DDG9zo71a0S7; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:04:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sv-casht-prod1.infinera.com (sv-casht-prod1.infinera.com [8.4.225.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACFED21F8827; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from SV-EXDB-PROD2.infinera.com ([fe80::1d05:1822:aaea:ff52]) by sv-casht-prod1.infinera.com ([10.100.97.218]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:04:46 -0800 From: Iftekhar Hussain <IHussain@infinera.com> To: "irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org" <irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: AQHNwQ/Q/2VTo5TcsUyBpp64GZARfpfnAvNQ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:04:45 +0000 Message-ID: <D7D7AB44C06A2440B716F1F1F5E70AE53F9976E0@SV-EXDB-PROD2.infinera.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> <50A12F9F.2040803@gmail.com> <50A134E0.4090701@queuefull.net> <CAFC8oMacomsSpTdvg8+cwny30TpcBTza1JiKhBtjinGEiPR0xA@mail.gmail.com> <384438043-1352744136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1255086084-@b15.c23.bise6.blackberry> In-Reply-To: <384438043-1352744136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1255086084-@b15.c23.bise6.blackberry> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.100.96.93] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:04:48 -0000 Both I2RS and ITRS seem okay. Regards, Iftekhar Return-Path: <rogaglia@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CABE521F87D0; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:05:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.024 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.575, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qNRvH0tBVcXv; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD4F21F87AA; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:05:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2264; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352768753; x=1353978353; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=HkwAKXCdEoAeXSDIC08H3iYG32DvoKhELVWh1g/zZw8=; b=jlgCcN4UgSYpTHLhhKRCdF4M5NboeRA1hjNnmjIK1eiFVwrx8Q7KRR5b 9jNxyv9xHsmbWtqpHcw58SmnUwkvs6vNYJG4wsUxNs8xdj5wfI4HEplyj PIxP8ZTNkjkVMYK+8GIRLqAR7YZMitx0uWeSMT4O2Qjookf4lBO3rhFcf Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EADOboVCtJXG+/2dsb2JhbABEw2OBCIIeAQEBAwEBAQEPAScuBgsFBwQCAQgRAwECAQoUECcLHQgCBA4FCAEZh2IGC5l4j2WQLowVhWlhA6RUgWuCb4IZ X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6894"; a="141532572" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Nov 2012 01:05:52 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAD15qWe005887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:05:52 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.4.241]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:05:51 -0600 From: "Roque Gagliano (rogaglia)" <rogaglia@cisco.com> To: "<awduche@awduche.com>" <awduche@awduche.com> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQAAkBWdAA3ho4AAANLZAAAAfEcAAAHE2YAAAEW8gAAAyGwAAAATEwAAARqtgAAOU58A Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:05:50 +0000 Message-ID: <EF4348D391D0334996EE9681630C83F021093184@xmb-rcd-x02.cisco.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> <50A12F9F.2040803@gmail.com> <50A134E0.4090701@queuefull.net> <CAFC8oMacomsSpTdvg8+cwny30TpcBTza1JiKhBtjinGEiPR0xA@mail.gmail.com> <384438043-1352744136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1255086084-@b15.c23.bise6.blackberry> In-Reply-To: <384438043-1352744136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1255086084-@b15.c23.bise6.blackberry> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.154.48.127] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19356.005 x-tm-as-result: No--35.904700-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <30B61B3FB5EF44429E21B450660C7549@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "<irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>" <irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>, "<irs-discuss@ietf.org>" <irs-discuss@ietf.org>, Russell Harrison <russell.harrison@sungard.com> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:05:53 -0000 -1 on ITRs. Bad timing also to chose that name as the ITU is discussing ITRs in next WC= IT conference. More info here: http://www.internetsociety.org/itr Roque On Nov 12, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Daniel Awduche wrote: > I concur. ITRS and I2RS are both good alternatives to IRS.=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards, > Daniel O. Awduche > Sent from my Mobile >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Russell Harrison <russell.harrison@sungard.com> > Sender: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:44:00=20 > To: <irs-discuss@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > I don't think the name matters too much - but anything other than IRS > would have a positive influence on the signal to noise ratio of search > results. >=20 > -RH >=20 > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Benson Schliesser > <bensons@queuefull.net> wrote: >> I don't have a strong opinion about using the name "IRS". On one hand, I >> doubt it matters much; given a little context I don't expect anybody wil= l be >> confused about what it is. On the other hand, a different name might hel= p >> with web searches, avoid misunderstandings, etc. >>=20 >> So, if the ADs aren't bothered by the name IRS then I propose we keep it= and >> move forward with technical discussion. Alternatively, if the ADs would >> prefer a different name then I propose something like Routing Influence >> System (RIS) [*], or indeed any of the suggestions made this morning. Th= e >> only thing that's important is to make the choice quickly, to keep focus= on >> technical discussion instead. >>=20 >> Cheers, >> -Benson >>=20 >> * ...because Routing Influence Protocol (RIP) seemed like another flavor= of >> the same problem... >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> irs-discuss mailing list >> irs-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <adrian@olddog.co.uk> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA4921F852A; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:23:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NUdv9UlRxv3B; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76ACA21F8488; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qAD0N6D1012317; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:23:07 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([31.121.158.242]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qAD0N4E3012311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:23:06 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <ietf-action@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:23:06 -0000 Message-ID: <02cb01cdc135$0f4b6840$2de238c0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac3BNQjX9bYbOQ9hT8a4RpVfGsz5zA== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [irs-discuss] Change name of a mailing list X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:23:10 -0000 Hi Secretariat, Can you help us migrate a mailing list? We currently have irs-discuss@ietf.org. Can you migrate it to i2rs@ietf.org ? We would like: - all subscribers to be migrated - all archives to be migrated if possible - new posts to irs-discuss to be bounced with a message saying list closed, please post to i2rs - new subscription requests to be refused Many thanks, Adrian Return-Path: <adrian@olddog.co.uk> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB75221F852A for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:20:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gyforqJs6SQd for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:20:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2560821F8488 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qAD0KBt1011813 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:20:11 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([31.121.158.242]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qAD0K7bo011796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:20:10 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:20:10 -0000 Message-ID: <02ba01cdc134$a64c2280$f2e46780$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02BB_01CDC134.A6534E70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac3BNJrji9SsoW0QSdiZXmZZ5/MOvQ== Content-Language: en-gb Subject: [irs-discuss] Enough already [Was: What's in a name?] X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:20:15 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02BB_01CDC134.A6534E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't pretend I didn't know what was going to happen. I knew you would all ignore my request for moderation. I am swayed by the Google results (although I suspect Ed could fix it for us). I hear the claim that we should name the work to allow future ocean boiling and will *not* be swayed by it. Given that an early name change is desirable, I will work with the Secretariat to change the name to I2RS and let you know when it happens. 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link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div = class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I can't pretend I didn't know = what was going to happen. I knew you would all ignore my request for = moderation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I am swayed by the Google = results (although I suspect Ed could fix it for = us).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I hear the claim that we = should name the work to allow future ocean boiling and will *not* be = swayed by it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Given that an early name = change is desirable, I will work with the Secretariat to change the name = to I2RS and let you know when it happens.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New = Roman";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New = Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_02BB_01CDC134.A6534E70-- Return-Path: <sriganeshkini@gmail.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F24C21F87AF for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:14:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I7s+WidHrwN4 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:14:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-f44.google.com (mail-wg0-f44.google.com [74.125.82.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E7221F8788 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id dr13so3186073wgb.13 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:14:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=+iUS1Y/tS2nFkGTvz2USZMej8yQN26JGmwKE4v9O3OA=; b=dDWnvSXM4hH99yXxyvs5a72PM9s/3WKnh0bJeHhu65zjkS6I92MXmkr0QZKqv4zkFj 13U5cNSkniqCglq0EjpMnzqVa40lBO9sLkcoYLM6+lGB2aNMDsjG9QcFV785nFcFIYXy LxY0D5O/XAM+yp44MZ5yYPOVZBjN6fAjxM2sOjtHWPDOrrkLsbTAMmkEKkMxf39YlQBH xPa4ag9j1FLTOwl2j8h2z4KMhF5up6PPud1B2KXeUmBOAQ1snLaiEyy4eoHePcCMwrmS 170e/K750V2vfYVw/7CcdEeFOzZbfbTzqvQ9OsPlD3t1oORdn9xOiyCBZYgTXd0Y6IWo IDjQ== Received: by 10.180.76.203 with SMTP id m11mr17484824wiw.6.1352765665871; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:14:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sriganeshkini@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.43.170 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:13:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41@xmb-aln-x14.cisco.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <CAOndX-uiOo4cO3t6wym1SECSs7YTByAWWu9=ZVBLbLjMArnVjA@mail.gmail.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898D@EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se> <7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8F@xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com> <4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41@xmb-aln-x14.cisco.com> From: Sriganesh Kini <sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:13:55 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: UfbX8DhDPvnq9SMf8Fj9w37OU7U Message-ID: <CAOndX-tuZUaRSGqzxt5KB7eD0BHGDX8m5yHuM8HXQybhC0A=rw@mail.gmail.com> To: "Zach Seils (seils)" <seils@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c7b14fa889004ce554c52 Cc: "Palani Chinnakannan \(pals\)" <pals@cisco.com>, Jakob Heitz <jakob.heitz@ericsson.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:14:28 -0000 --f46d043c7b14fa889004ce554c52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Palani, Zach, I agree it is more than routing. But 'network' is too wide and could be argued that it goes beyond IETF's domain. Also we should not use any element specific terminology since this goes beyond a single network element. An alternative may have been to use IETF specific encaps such as TCP/IP and MPLS in the acronym but that would make it too long. IMO 'Routing' is the closest alternative for this charter and is also identified with IETF's activities. I also think it is useful to qualify the 'Interface' in any acronym as 'Programmatic', to differentiate it against the plethora of interfaces that already exist. Thanks On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Zach Seils (seils) <seils@cisco.com>wrote= : > I agree with this take. It=E2=80=99s about more than just routing.**** > > ** ** > > Regards,**** > > Zach**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org= ] > *On Behalf Of *Palani Chinnakannan (pals) > *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 3:17 PM > *To:* Jakob Heitz > > *Cc:* irs-discuss@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?**** > > ** ** > > In general, the reason why some of us feel that we should a use a much > generic name like INS (Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to > network element) etc is because the operations, data models and the > requirements spelled out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing > table. IMHO, its scope is a full network system. By introducing a name > at a higher scope paves way for defining several other interface to > components of a network (routing, transport, network, NE =E2=80=A6) in a = consistent > framework as spelled in IRS.**** > > ** ** > > pals**** > > ** ** > > *From:* irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org= <irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>] > *On Behalf Of *Jakob Heitz > *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM > *Cc:* irs-discuss@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?**** > > ** ** > > The similarity between**** > > Routing Information Protocol**** > > and**** > > Rest In Peace**** > > never confused anyone.**** > > Did it?**** > > -- > Jakob Heitz.**** > > **** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org= ] > *On Behalf Of *Sriganesh Kini > *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM > *To:* adrian@olddog.co.uk > *Cc:* irs-discuss@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?**** > > PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface **** > > ** ** > > Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, > besides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't s= ee > a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym.**** > > ** ** > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> > wrote:**** > > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v= e > had > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not > want to > spend any more time on this sort of thing. > > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we > really > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used f= or > something else) we need to find a solution soon. > > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS > need to > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to b= e > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly > reach a > serious conclusion quickly. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss**** > > > > **** > > ** ** > > -- > - Sri**** > > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > --=20 - Sri --f46d043c7b14fa889004ce554c52 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Palani, Zach,<div><br></div><div>I agree it is more than routing. But &#= 39;network' is too wide and could be argued that it goes beyond IETF= 9;s domain. Also we should not use any element specific terminology since t= his goes beyond a single network element. An alternative may have been to u= se IETF specific encaps such as TCP/IP and MPLS in the acronym but that wou= ld make it too long. =C2=A0IMO 'Routing' is the closest alternative= for this charter and is also identified with IETF's activities.</div> <div><br></div><div>I also think it is useful to qualify the 'Interface= ' in any acronym as 'Programmatic', to differentiate it against= the plethora of interfaces that already exist.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><= div> Thanks<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM, = Zach Seils (seils) <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:seils@cisco.com"= target=3D"_blank">seils@cisco.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa= dding-left:1ex"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1f497d">I agree with this take.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s about more than = just routing.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1f497d">Zach<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href= =3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss-boun= ces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org" ta= rget=3D"_blank">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Palani Chinnakannan (pals)<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 3:17 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Jakob Heitz</span></p><div><div><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-di= scuss@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<u></u><u></u></div>= </div><p></p> </div> </div><div><div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In general,=C2=A0 the rea= son why some of us feel that we should a use a much generic name like INS (= Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to network element) etc is because the=C2=A0 operations, data models and the requirements spel= led out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table.=C2=A0 IMHO,=C2= =A0 its scope is a full network system.=C2=A0 By introducing a name at a hi= gher scope paves way for defining several other interface to components of a network (routing, transport, network, NE =E2=80=A6) in = a consistent framework as spelled in IRS.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa= n></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">pals<u></u><u></u></span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa= n></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discu= ss-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org" ta= rget=3D"_blank">mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jakob Heitz<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM<br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-di= scuss@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<u></u><u></u></span= ></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">The similarity between</span><u></u><u></u= ></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Routing Information Protocol</span><u></u>= <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">and</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Rest In Peace</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">never confused anyone.</span><u></u><u></u= ></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Did it?</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans= -serif"">--</span> <br> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-se= rif"">Jakob Heitz.</span><u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid purple 1.5pt;padding:0in= 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-= bottom:5.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"> <hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon= t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:<= /span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",&q= uot;sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discu= ss-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.= org]" target=3D"_blank"> [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sriganesh Kin= i<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@= olddog.co.uk</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-di= scuss@ietf.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?</span><u></u><u></u= ></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface <u></u><u></u><= /p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has l= ong been buried. IRS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search resu= lts.=C2=A0Also, I don't see a good reason to include 'System' i= n the acronym.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <<= a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk= </a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym = to use a bit sad. I've had<br> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to<br> spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> <br> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly<br> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for= <br> something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> <br> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to<br> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to= be<br> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a<br> serious conclusion quickly.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> Adrian<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.= org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><u></u><u></u></p= > </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> <br clear=3D"all"> <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br> - Sri<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></div> </div> </div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.= org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>- Sri<br= > </div> --f46d043c7b14fa889004ce554c52-- Return-Path: <mmorrow@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3174121F86D3 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:33:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T7Z9YyzEWiiz for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3602B21F86CE for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:33:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5370; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352756005; x=1353965605; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=tALdyLhZb71iEj7c0CU+P3N7PLepoFl+mO1RqDjUe3M=; b=Tlf3lrgy9qyrZEOll8hCyn+iFo7zUJEYnbm+OyxvVFi3y5ui7HKrxzLw ezEEvnmfT/u/XQkJlwTwlhMZFPhIXoa63SJh3FkD0zckbXAQ7lcZIHzt3 FDW+SUQuD0xw8dY9NgyXENETScztxSg6Rhpj/tpML88OZyH6/gEBOsM+0 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFAK1qoVCtJV2d/2dsb2JhbABEgkm4IQGId4EIgh4BAQEEAQEBDwFbCwwEAgEIDgMEAQEBCh0HJwsUCQgCBAENBQgah2cBC5lyoAiMFYVpYQOIJZwvgWuCb4IZ X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6894"; a="138441623" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 21:33:24 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACLXOVQ021782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:33:24 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.5.252]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:33:23 -0600 From: "Monique Morrow (mmorrow)" <mmorrow@cisco.com> To: Edward Crabbe <edc@google.com>, "Shishio Tsuchiya (shtsuchi)" <shtsuchi@cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQABNjBQAAFSTIAAA0F7wAANuoqAAADQdwD//835Eg== Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:33:23 +0000 Message-ID: <0F42355D5FDE704D98EAEFE817A6528A152E9524@xmb-aln-x10.cisco.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE3801A181F216@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> <50A13B2F.7010709@cisco.com>, <CACKN6JF66ywPKDPEYeifZ=Zh0unQciivRzx+08xaJxN22AVdAA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CACKN6JF66ywPKDPEYeifZ=Zh0unQciivRzx+08xaJxN22AVdAA@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [171.71.111.23] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19356.005 x-tm-as-result: No--42.748100-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0F42355D5FDE704D98EAEFE817A6528A152E9524xmbalnx10ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "hshah@ciena.com" <hshah@ciena.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:33:26 -0000 --_000_0F42355D5FDE704D98EAEFE817A6528A152E9524xmbalnx10ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +2 Monique ________________________________ From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf= of Edward Crabbe [edc@google.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:32 AM To: Shishio Tsuchiya (shtsuchi) Cc: hshah@ciena.com; irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Doh. +1 for I2RS On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Shishio Tsuchiya <shtsuchi@cisco.com<mail= to:shtsuchi@cisco.com>> wrote: +1 for I2RS IRS are using as "Inter-Domain Routing Security" meeting for Japan ISP oper= ators. http://irs.ietf.to/ Regards, -Shishio (2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote: > Agree. > > Favor I2RS as name.. > > /himanshu > > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [= mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>] O= n Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM > To: Ross Callon; adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>; irs-dis= cuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web = search results. > Best, > Ravi > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss --_000_0F42355D5FDE704D98EAEFE817A6528A152E9524xmbalnx10ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html dir=3D"ltr"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> <style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style> </head> <body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0"> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: = 10pt;">+2 <div><br> </div> <div>Monique<br> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRpF359488" style=3D"direction: ltr; "><font face=3D"Tahoma" s= ize=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [irs-= discuss-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Edward Crabbe [edc@google.com]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:32 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Shishio Tsuchiya (shtsuchi)<br> <b>Cc:</b> hshah@ciena.com; irs-discuss@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:10pt">Doh.&= nbsp; <div><br> </div> <div>+1 for I2RS<br> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Shishio Tsuchi= ya <span dir=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:shtsuchi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">shtsuchi@cisco.= com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1= px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex"> +1 for I2RS<br> IRS are using as "Inter-Domain Routing Security" meeting for Japa= n ISP operators.<br> <a href=3D"http://irs.ietf.to/" target=3D"_blank">http://irs.ietf.to/</a><b= r> <br> Regards,<br> -Shishio<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"> <div class=3D"h5"><br> (2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote:<br> > Agree.<br> ><br> > Favor I2RS as name..<br> ><br> > /himanshu<br> ><br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank= ">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bo= unces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Beha= lf Of Raveendra Torvi<br> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM<br> > To: Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_bla= nk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.= org</a><br> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> ><br> > Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner w= eb search results.<br> > Best,<br> > Ravi<br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@= ietf.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target= =3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> ><br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.= org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_0F42355D5FDE704D98EAEFE817A6528A152E9524xmbalnx10ciscoc_-- Return-Path: <seils@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3721E21F86E4 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQAVIucAAAIjLAAAALnRgAAMhqKA Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:18:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41@xmb-aln-x14.cisco.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <CAOndX-uiOo4cO3t6wym1SECSs7YTByAWWu9=ZVBLbLjMArnVjA@mail.gmail.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898D@EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se> <7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8F@xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8F@xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.98.89.105] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19356.005 x-tm-as-result: No--45.588800-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41xmbalnx14ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:18:59 -0000 --_000_4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41xmbalnx14ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with this take. It's about more than just routing. Regards, Zach From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Palani Chinnakannan (pals) Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 3:17 PM To: Jakob Heitz Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? In general, the reason why some of us feel that we should a use a much gen= eric name like INS (Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to netwo= rk element) etc is because the operations, data models and the requirement= s spelled out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table. IMHO, it= s scope is a full network system. By introducing a name at a higher scope = paves way for defining several other interface to components of a network (= routing, transport, network, NE ...) in a consistent framework as spelled i= n IRS. pals From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [ma= ilto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jakob Heitz Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? The similarity between Routing Information Protocol and Rest In Peace never confused anyone. Did it? -- Jakob Heitz. ________________________________ From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [ma= ilto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.= org]> On Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM To: adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, b= esides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't see = a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:= adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote: Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've = had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to spend any more time on this sort of thing. However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon. Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a serious conclusion quickly. Thanks, Adrian _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss -- - Sri --_000_4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41xmbalnx14ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Consolas; panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Lucida Console"; panose-1:2 11 6 9 4 5 4 2 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} span.BalloonTextChar {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.EmailStyle21 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Consolas; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1F497D">I agree with this take. It’s about more than ju= st routing.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1F497D">Zach<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas= ;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> irs-disc= uss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Palani Chinnakannan (pals)<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 3:17 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Jakob Heitz<br> <b>Cc:</b> irs-discuss@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In general, the rea= son why some of us feel that we should a use a much generic name like INS (= Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to network element) etc is because the operations, data models and the requirements spel= led out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table. IMHO, = ; its scope is a full network system. By introducing a name at a high= er scope paves way for defining several other interface to components of a network (routing, transport, network, NE …) in a = consistent framework as spelled in IRS.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">pals<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.or= g</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:irs-discuss-b= ounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jakob Heitz<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM<br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a>= <br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">The similarity between</span><o:p></o:p></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Routing Information Protocol</span><o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">and</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Rest In Peace</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">never confused anyone.</span><o:p></o:p></= p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Did it?</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans= -serif"">--</span> <br> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-se= rif"">Jakob Heitz.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid purple 1.5pt;padding:0in= 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-= bottom:5.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"> <hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon= t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:<= /span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",&q= uot;sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.or= g</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org]"> [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sriganesh Kin= i<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a><b= r> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a>= <br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has l= ong been buried. IRS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search resu= lts. Also, I don't see a good reason to include 'System' in the acrony= m.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <<= a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk= </a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym = to use a bit sad. I've had<br> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to<br> spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> <br> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly<br> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for= <br> something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> <br> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to<br> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be<= br> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a<br> serious conclusion quickly.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> Adrian<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.= org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> <br clear=3D"all"> <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br> - Sri<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41xmbalnx14ciscocom_-- Return-Path: <pals@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAAE921F85BB for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:17:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zv1mPyuI8Z5u for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E4921F85AF for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:17:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11693; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352751428; x=1353961028; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=5AMB9ewp0Fv+Th0AesZt04K+888Npln5dYmgcJJfUx0=; b=EdsWreJzkWDQhJasrZx9n2d1+zs257pOLxJQkWua2Rhih8q7CZzNTWSI u5vXe3D+LzNhaGUJvjZEq1gy1V1hWwyncQTEc1R8KqwG30NZZv8atj1HU UUE7V4rY7A8NBBr9a8z77H+anLJa82EV/4NjpPBx5GHoBu+X2cqi2QMAR Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAC5YoVCtJXHA/2dsb2JhbABEgknBGIEIgh4BAQEEAQEBDwEaQQsQAgEIEQQBAQsdBycLFAkIAgQOBQgTB4dnAQuZXaAEBIwVhWlhA6RUgWuCb4IZ X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6894"; a="141419568" Received: from rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com ([173.37.113.192]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 20:17:07 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com [173.36.12.84]) by rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACKH7q3021518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:17:07 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.251]) by xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com ([173.36.12.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:17:07 -0600 From: "Palani Chinnakannan (pals)" <pals@cisco.com> To: Jakob Heitz <jakob.heitz@ericsson.com> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: AQHNwQc8AF7Qd7B0YEa0VdWmP9+oKpfnAhgA//+fy/A= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:17:07 +0000 Message-ID: <7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8F@xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <CAOndX-uiOo4cO3t6wym1SECSs7YTByAWWu9=ZVBLbLjMArnVjA@mail.gmail.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898D@EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898D@EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [171.71.139.238] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19356.005 x-tm-as-result: No--45.588800-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8Fxmbalnx05ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:17:10 -0000 --_000_7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8Fxmbalnx05ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In general, the reason why some of us feel that we should a use a much gen= eric name like INS (Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to netwo= rk element) etc is because the operations, data models and the requirement= s spelled out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table. IMHO, it= s scope is a full network system. By introducing a name at a higher scope = paves way for defining several other interface to components of a network (= routing, transport, network, NE ...) in a consistent framework as spelled i= n IRS. pals From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Jakob Heitz Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? The similarity between Routing Information Protocol and Rest In Peace never confused anyone. Did it? -- Jakob Heitz. ________________________________ From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [ma= ilto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.= org]> On Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM To: adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk> Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, b= esides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't see = a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:= adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote: Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've = had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to spend any more time on this sort of thing. However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon. Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a serious conclusion quickly. Thanks, Adrian _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss -- - Sri --_000_7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8Fxmbalnx05ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Lucida Console"; panose-1:2 11 6 9 4 5 4 2 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.BalloonTextChar {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In general, the rea= son why some of us feel that we should a use a much generic name like INS (= Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to network element) etc is because the operations, data models and the requirements spel= led out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table. IMHO, = ; its scope is a full network system. By introducing a name at a high= er scope paves way for defining several other interface to components of a network (routing, transport, network, NE …) in a = consistent framework as spelled in IRS.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">pals<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> irs-disc= uss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jakob Heitz<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM<br> <b>Cc:</b> irs-discuss@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">The similarity between</span><o:p></o:p></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Routing Information Protocol</span><o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">and</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Rest In Peace</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">never confused anyone.</span><o:p></o:p></= p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lu= cida Console";color:purple">Did it?</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans= -serif"">--</span> <br> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-se= rif"">Jakob Heitz.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid purple 1.5pt;padding:0in= 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-= bottom:5.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"> <hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon= t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:<= /span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",&q= uot;sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.or= g</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org]"> [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sriganesh Kin= i<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a><b= r> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a>= <br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has l= ong been buried. IRS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search resu= lts. Also, I don't see a good reason to include 'System' in the acrony= m.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <<= a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk= </a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym = to use a bit sad. I've had<br> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to<br> spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> <br> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly<br> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for= <br> something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> <br> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to<br> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be<= br> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a<br> serious conclusion quickly.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> Adrian<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.= org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> <br clear=3D"all"> <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br> - Sri<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </body> </html> --_000_7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8Fxmbalnx05ciscocom_-- Return-Path: <jakob.heitz@ericsson.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8373F21F8625 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:56:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.647, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6fIE-YtLSxie for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D170721F861C for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id qACK22Ah028831 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:02:20 -0600 Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (147.117.188.84) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se (147.117.20.181) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.279.1; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:56:21 -0500 Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:56:21 -0500 From: Jakob Heitz <jakob.heitz@ericsson.com> CC: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQATCnYAAAhrJPA= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:56:20 +0000 Message-ID: <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898D@EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <CAOndX-uiOo4cO3t6wym1SECSs7YTByAWWu9=ZVBLbLjMArnVjA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAOndX-uiOo4cO3t6wym1SECSs7YTByAWWu9=ZVBLbLjMArnVjA@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898DEUSAAMB109ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:56:25 -0000 --_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898DEUSAAMB109ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The similarity between Routing Information Protocol and Rest In Peace never confused anyone. Did it? -- Jakob Heitz. ________________________________ From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM To: adrian@olddog.co.uk Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, b= esides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't see = a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:= adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote: Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've = had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to spend any more time on this sort of thing. However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon. Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a serious conclusion quickly. Thanks, Adrian _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss -- - Sri --_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898DEUSAAMB109ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6002.18686" name=3D"GENERATOR"> </head> <body> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800= 080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">The similarity between</= span></font></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800= 080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">Routing Information Prot= ocol</span></font></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800= 080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">and</span></font></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800= 080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">Rest In Peace</span></fo= nt></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800= 080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">never confused anyone.</= span></font></div> <div><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800080" size=3D"2"><span class= =3D"134055419-12112012">Did it?</span></font></div> <!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <p><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">--</font></span> <b= r> <span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Jakob Heitz.</font></s= pan></p> <div> </div> <br> <blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDE= R-LEFT: #800080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <div class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" lang=3D"en-us" dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"lef= t"> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sriganesh Kini<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM<br> <b>To:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk<br> <b>Cc:</b> irs-discuss@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface <div><br> </div> <div>Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. I= RS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I = don't see a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym.</div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <= span dir=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.= co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0= px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've = had<br> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to<br> spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> <br> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly<br> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for= <br> something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> <br> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to<br> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be<= br> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a<br> serious conclusion quickly.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> Adrian<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.= org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> </blockquote> </div> <br> <br clear=3D"all"> <div><br> </div> -- <br> - Sri<br> </div> </blockquote> </body> </html> --_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898DEUSAAMB109ericsso_-- Return-Path: <sriganeshkini@gmail.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F5B21F868D for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:55:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FW3Eu8ekwrNk for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:55:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-f172.google.com (mail-we0-f172.google.com [74.125.82.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49A6821F8686 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:55:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-we0-f172.google.com with SMTP id u46so3264392wey.31 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:55:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=PWLP/jNAXnY0NH6XbHOTt2b/qsfWW4eJSxgLYuXVeBU=; b=G8SQaHxllTduwV8G+CXzBpe55SkvvVJbois+lzhaLQWlPSt8pYwJ1Nzqftr+T2mY6o YYkB9w0PqU/B4h7IlGu9NPKTRO1qIy+Ukm4vf+baTPxGqXaP93VHlf99jZiwSJYesZb0 lQp5QGj0boO/ZRY8uvSR47eGe/CSEQc9ap2zCXjJHk0vd5qAY3fU7Tf0ARX+ThlSoBWQ bEJGufTTUtED9FejbXtbTg9aI8EGnXRUdjzRWQj7H+68vxB3sd2qHL4E2S/XkBYyB9ja IfEAbGLfnukAb7sDcc4hVktJJAXlN3jfdyGlHIYfV/5QA2ypeDiY0uNJ0BopEBEZsLTK CycA== Received: by 10.180.76.203 with SMTP id m11mr16542104wiw.6.1352746538420; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:55:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sriganeshkini@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.43.170 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:55:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> From: Sriganesh Kini <sriganesh.kini@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:55:08 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: J8_GP9nuQ6Gl7a-p69OJWgwq3go Message-ID: <CAOndX-uiOo4cO3t6wym1SECSs7YTByAWWu9=ZVBLbLjMArnVjA@mail.gmail.com> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c7b14e4ca7704ce50d820 Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:55:40 -0000 --f46d043c7b14e4ca7704ce50d820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't see a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've > had > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not > want to > spend any more time on this sort of thing. > > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we > really > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for > something else) we need to find a solution soon. > > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS > need to > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly > reach a > serious conclusion quickly. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > -- - Sri --f46d043c7b14e4ca7704ce50d820 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface<div><br></div><div>Though this clashes= with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, besides the obvious = clash can mess up the search results.=C2=A0Also, I don't see a good rea= son to include 'System' in the acronym.</div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 1= 2, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:a= drian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>></span> wr= ote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Personally, I find discussions of what name/= acronym to use a bit sad. I've had<br> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to<br> spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> <br> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly<br> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for= <br> something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> <br> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to<br> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to= be<br> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a<br> serious conclusion quickly.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> Adrian<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.= org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>- Sri<br> </div> --f46d043c7b14e4ca7704ce50d820-- Return-Path: <edc@google.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C5521F874A for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:32:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.346 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.346 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.630, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iutpVq7yC45A for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f44.google.com (mail-qa0-f44.google.com [209.85.216.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FAC821F870B for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id c4so411182qae.10 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:32:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=T/ie4oCYxqAhFvr/eOfa0WZ38nMGQ1WvWRB5TvATbk8=; b=lgCV07uht21oJGKM6pYZRoQW5wpav1AfvDmUhxBbDqqY2d9x84rRJy2N6XTj2pFyhW JrnYHe0rKtU2PB57WmLeBE0czd0pBA1gYe0tm0BMKL8YdTb7OgRVRZQKx+SzvUmXbKtT JiYjh526/dogORKLznC+JWNPYMi7qcFT25m8yA89M+LdBq4jIqDC68CNqncA18XVR5SA K1vmEDcsLOsR2NwRFsWOc0lSWMVJG2/1TGLgPEetXr0cfN+2oadDajBvhUdq2wYmMQRc /7GInOJPQ/7O9W+3rKWK66JbjPMu8jXxcdz95bBpowhKgFpzLkLXDK2nXhzI6LOK8ZvF JzNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=T/ie4oCYxqAhFvr/eOfa0WZ38nMGQ1WvWRB5TvATbk8=; b=P+cyEbOcLqxRS05ZiZoxJQ678sUgzQiKC5tfyoBlfjEoPKtAwT8QtY5AkRHjnckmM2 A9KyJOXs2HvL3M7JC/CnF+uJC4Zkt5qtEI+xRzXzTmmPjwXvdmziFy4yhaCExV938ZqV NfCwAJCo3HGrPKI3biZD0yci2Ka8g5iklhVonpZ80LsT/ZrD7TM6cTwS3IBWRiuWvWlq hJAHliK+QgwYrST43/AK57cjgGJPUfG/gwSRzofj0ceE4KB2GnxHp+jeoMouXe/m4Fo+ EODQa6ItJjQJoBnFsbx1yKrmLAkwRGm3SzftpOO9Z57ECsw5qiTKZKCdyaB64L7+lS+u 9hTw== Received: by 10.49.106.70 with SMTP id gs6mr25785349qeb.36.1352745166984; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:32:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.71.167 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:32:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50A13B2F.7010709@cisco.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE3801A181F216@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> <50A13B2F.7010709@cisco.com> From: Edward Crabbe <edc@google.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:32:06 -0800 Message-ID: <CACKN6JF66ywPKDPEYeifZ=Zh0unQciivRzx+08xaJxN22AVdAA@mail.gmail.com> To: Shishio Tsuchiya <shtsuchi@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b67898a26554f04ce508715 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkyE62SgZYhutxX+UKGSuNcX9BATJ/h2kU21CwMe7j1b/jxwR0MalaZK4Te0Cio4Q3fLn98UMXl0MHcYJpBpXxyTZ3d9mAhQZSKBUuXHCeuY8bK0hdlP14ej90GO+0SQ/Dgm3+N/E0agoLqGT5MHcswToBiqaHB1TP8q4B2HRylnkSkW6VHdPqCt2MuMiMSmimwk1GY Cc: hshah@ciena.com, irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:32:48 -0000 --047d7b67898a26554f04ce508715 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Doh. +1 for I2RS On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Shishio Tsuchiya <shtsuchi@cisco.com>wrote: > +1 for I2RS > IRS are using as "Inter-Domain Routing Security" meeting for Japan ISP > operators. > http://irs.ietf.to/ > > Regards, > -Shishio > > (2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote: > > Agree. > > > > Favor I2RS as name.. > > > > /himanshu > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM > > To: Ross Callon; adrian@olddog.co.uk; irs-discuss@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > > > Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web > search results. > > Best, > > Ravi > > > > _______________________________________________ > > irs-discuss mailing list > > irs-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > --047d7b67898a26554f04ce508715 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Doh.= =A0<div><br></div><div>+1 for I2RS<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon= , Nov 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Shishio Tsuchiya <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:shtsuchi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">shtsuchi@cisco.com</a>>= </span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">+1 for I2RS<br> IRS are using as "Inter-Domain Routing Security" meeting for Japa= n ISP operators.<br> <a href=3D"http://irs.ietf.to/" target=3D"_blank">http://irs.ietf.to/</a><b= r> <br> Regards,<br> -Shishio<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> (2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote:<br> > Agree.<br> ><br> > Favor I2RS as name..<br> ><br> > /himanshu<br> ><br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-boun= ces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">ir= s-discuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi<br> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM<br> > To: Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.= co.uk</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a>= <br> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> ><br> > Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives c= leaner web search results.<br> > Best,<br> > Ravi<br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target= =3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> ><br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div> --047d7b67898a26554f04ce508715-- Return-Path: <SRS0=xyCqz9=JI=awduche.com=awduche@srs.bis6.us.blackberry.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4F521F86E5; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:16:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id khyO9RjzUYlH; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:16:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp08.bis6.us.blackberry.com (smtp08.bis6.us.blackberry.com [74.82.85.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3935221F8696; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:16:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from b15.c23.bise6.blackberry ([192.168.0.115]) by srs.bis6.us.blackberry.com (8.13.7 TEAMON/8.13.7) with ESMTP id qACGhQun007302; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:15:36 GMT X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 384438043 Message-ID: <384438043-1352744136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1255086084-@b15.c23.bise6.blackberry> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: Normal References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> <50A12F9F.2040803@gmail.com> <50A134E0.4090701@queuefull.net> <CAFC8oMacomsSpTdvg8+cwny30TpcBTza1JiKhBtjinGEiPR0xA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAFC8oMacomsSpTdvg8+cwny30TpcBTza1JiKhBtjinGEiPR0xA@mail.gmail.com> Sensitivity: Normal Importance: Normal To: "Russell Harrison" <russell.harrison@sungard.com>, irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org, irs-discuss@ietf.org From: "Daniel Awduche" <awduche@awduche.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:15:37 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? 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X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6894"; a="20757899" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-4.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 18:08:49 +0000 Received: from [10.71.44.87] (tky-shtsuchi-8916.cisco.com [10.71.44.87]) by bgl-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACI8mBn029068; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:08:48 GMT Message-ID: <50A13B2F.7010709@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:08:47 +0900 From: Shishio Tsuchiya <shtsuchi@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hshah@ciena.com References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE3801A181F216@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE3801A181F216@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: shtsuchi@cisco.com, irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:08:55 -0000 +1 for I2RS IRS are using as "Inter-Domain Routing Security" meeting for Japan ISP operators. http://irs.ietf.to/ Regards, -Shishio (2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote: > Agree. > > Favor I2RS as name.. > > /himanshu > > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM > To: Ross Callon; adrian@olddog.co.uk; irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web search results. > Best, > Ravi > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > Return-Path: <stbryant@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838AD21F868D for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:58:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.686 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.686 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s08SlWX13iRZ for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9AAF21F8679 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:58:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=272; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352743138; x=1353952738; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=v/GSl++Fz3eeRYR2E+LTztDGu5W+gID9/jvhaMtWhfk=; b=P8ngpdUA+VjoEjHGvUc+Frf44wjbvwgBE9pb6iHjXUFZWxSO48vR7Kno a6ibZf11fXZVWMcdQ/Ga45o2V5wxKH9OpvkLr0b4SHu9TnJ8UiD7G6KVW Wh9c11lnnY97jOy0lUmBBUbHaTjC/Zd95d+2wO519W5UxoWAHK723t2Wu I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFABQ4oVCQ/khM/2dsb2JhbABEjjOxYoNFgQiCHgEBAQQSAQIjQAEQCw4KCRYPCQMCAQIBRQYNAQcBAR6HaJl4g00QnByMFYZKA5V8jliBBmWCbw X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6894"; a="146629019" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 17:58:56 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACHwuOD028152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:58:56 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id qACHwsCd018622; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:58:54 GMT Message-ID: <50A138DE.9030509@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:58:54 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:58:58 -0000 On 12/11/2012 17:20, Raveendra Torvi wrote: > Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web search results. > Best, > Ravi Good point. Searching for "IRS" is hopeless, although searching for "IRS IETF" gets this work as the top hit. S Return-Path: <russell.harrison@sungard.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C6D21F85C2 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZDPQpp6R+oPE for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from na3sys009aog120.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog120.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7966421F8769 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-f198.google.com ([209.85.220.198]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob120.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUKE1Yf9UQAXVhWiKwn2pmVuFNFJUYaIy@postini.com; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:01 PST Received: by mail-vc0-f198.google.com with SMTP id d16so11268861vcd.1 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:00 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=lpPH2cySZ6aa80NgFckz6FeG/HYgy6/Mva+5hARQytA=; b=f8DywlXSD0EimjPfRdz+AQS1zrfeUXWtg7iI5G5Ykg6M92dsLH5HZLxG5AYG/rMkjW WOKVNgK7jEl7w8ygyGbar1NklDhQOhU9ufqRVPJc2zdjIfZCgQnyMhwkxC0ISvpu/79L JIwSjw6ZZAp3Q3OgSAiMiwOdLGlmss5PLmC1k3k4eFyjkWJ/Grh5T00JMAGo7kICepgC 08u0FpbaNdP03+aMCsQVqo5/6PqHuYxL9WeE3hNHOdJC0hXTYX5N/a/Akj7+aIJIm5Yy 4bDDpKo2yChj2RIFc3CBRLIbLZmO9QEefo88G2mw20YxIRCUtajY1P6ReFT7Mwc2Jfma IRRw== Received: by 10.58.13.65 with SMTP id f1mr21891893vec.19.1352742240443; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.13.65 with SMTP id f1mr21891882vec.19.1352742240308; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.29.2 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50A134E0.4090701@queuefull.net> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> <50A12F9F.2040803@gmail.com> <50A134E0.4090701@queuefull.net> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:44:00 -0600 Message-ID: <CAFC8oMacomsSpTdvg8+cwny30TpcBTza1JiKhBtjinGEiPR0xA@mail.gmail.com> From: Russell Harrison <russell.harrison@sungard.com> To: irs-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQng5+etRFCxiht9noeI8R0P7+ZNOndzOS1ExEK8MagTIsQydvbvzfzRof+oxtTZGNirVfQZLtQGf8NqiKLexpTwHZjuEBBc5LTNd8JzHQVAcVNiFTF9U307jdspVlIKkBympnQsPsbNjheWNZDyCDPoMfZzdQ== Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:44:02 -0000 I don't think the name matters too much - but anything other than IRS would have a positive influence on the signal to noise ratio of search results. -RH On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Benson Schliesser <bensons@queuefull.net> wrote: > I don't have a strong opinion about using the name "IRS". On one hand, I > doubt it matters much; given a little context I don't expect anybody will be > confused about what it is. On the other hand, a different name might help > with web searches, avoid misunderstandings, etc. > > So, if the ADs aren't bothered by the name IRS then I propose we keep it and > move forward with technical discussion. Alternatively, if the ADs would > prefer a different name then I propose something like Routing Influence > System (RIS) [*], or indeed any of the suggestions made this morning. The > only thing that's important is to make the choice quickly, to keep focus on > technical discussion instead. > > Cheers, > -Benson > > * ...because Routing Influence Protocol (RIP) seemed like another flavor of > the same problem... > > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > Return-Path: <prvs=6663d7304b=hshah@ciena.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69CB821F8773 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:42:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KHWZKL-WuZBg for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:42:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00103a01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00103a01.pphosted.com [67.231.152.227]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA40321F8769 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:42:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0001124 [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00103a01.pphosted.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id qACHelhi022031 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:42:45 -0500 Received: from mdwexght02.ciena.com (LIN1-118-36-29.ciena.com [63.118.36.29]) by mx0b-00103a01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 18k5nbg0t5-8 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:42:45 -0500 Received: from MDWVEXCHHT01.ciena.com (10.4.156.175) by MDWEXGHT02.ciena.com (10.4.140.213) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.279.5; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:39:44 -0500 Received: from MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com ([::1]) by MDWVEXCHHT01.ciena.com ([10.4.156.175]) with mapi; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:39:43 -0500 From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com> To: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:39:45 -0500 Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQABNjBQAAFSTIAAA0F7wA== Message-ID: <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE3801A181F216@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-10.0.0.1412-7.000.1014-19358.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--3.293400-8.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8185, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-11-12_03:2012-11-12, 2012-11-11, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=1 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1203120001 definitions=main-1211120162 Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:42:46 -0000 Agree.=20 Favor I2RS as name.. /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM To: Ross Callon; adrian@olddog.co.uk; irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web se= arch results. Best, Ravi Return-Path: <bensons@queuefull.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4639B21F86CE for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:41:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVJh7XCUeX7L for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com (mail-vc0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68B021F860C for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id fl11so7109070vcb.31 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:41:41 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=RajX+Im+muTBbtU+dRTTN34KLfh87xaVBMCnkfvE27A=; b=YTszIGH7y15+XoBf23kNVXZraTexyAXQZhwtgVBeXKbowJXQJpTphmUyBw6GkTXNk8 8dkZ1bWeGW6D6R0ph8cXeyBoHzjQN6WZtc3w7E31ytES+csyQwCE+NKh06Soqeuy+TC1 70m08nY56FQeW5J6Y7UkKv91zRfR2S+uqwpDyLsK2ICh2mXcRr7mStc3/Uiv5K80S+ia tY08+Q/LX7xtiGEPCk5xLZOLWes5XkPl9SYtmNTNd1TfFqLOfGw7hUz310cuB/HiQwLR KGvsdmb3FRlRNPrfMsEtzhybTXr5S3oRPnMCOfHeL4n8HHXIAQKNMixLWUgLZ4NyF5TB JEdQ== Received: by 10.220.205.198 with SMTP id fr6mr1126168vcb.63.1352742100907; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rhalbach-sslvpn-nc.jnpr.net (westford-nat.juniper.net. [66.129.232.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dp6sm7077234vec.11.2012.11.12.09.41.39 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50A134E0.4090701@queuefull.net> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:41:52 -0500 From: Benson Schliesser <bensons@queuefull.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: irs-discuss@ietf.org References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> <50A12F9F.2040803@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <50A12F9F.2040803@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnw4EDT5d9ls+h8zfTH2os3RNxWpVvz0hK1mCX9Cgc0kiwxSvt23qQSwAKkZtmBigFRCtD2 Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:41:42 -0000 I don't have a strong opinion about using the name "IRS". On one hand, I doubt it matters much; given a little context I don't expect anybody will be confused about what it is. On the other hand, a different name might help with web searches, avoid misunderstandings, etc. So, if the ADs aren't bothered by the name IRS then I propose we keep it and move forward with technical discussion. Alternatively, if the ADs would prefer a different name then I propose something like Routing Influence System (RIS) [*], or indeed any of the suggestions made this morning. The only thing that's important is to make the choice quickly, to keep focus on technical discussion instead. Cheers, -Benson * ...because Routing Influence Protocol (RIP) seemed like another flavor of the same problem... Return-Path: <amclachl@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF9921F85ED for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:27:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZsGojV1d7e-M for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:27:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC9021F861F for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:27:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11064; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352741264; x=1353950864; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=3ZW+X9f/ZMRZ6gr8Uz4102YqZ7gL9U8WeuGlSTgLY6Q=; b=eYJpBqzoGQgZZ5mEnZ6kgmOwcDROBoTVGqeLlB84tkNPFGKhrC6IP2qD /DTQrCggCtmcrWNCjnxZMxXiclh86jqt17fOzzZVZZwm9o7e6kX6nitGz oje7vLJfN7PA3J3PizxEC0yl+wNdILJ7KpnXEQebqI1jKe3GQlkXUT5VA 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAIcwoVCtJV2d/2dsb2JhbABEw1qBCIIeAQEBBAEBAQ8BWxcEAgEIDgMEAQEBCh0HIQYLFAkIAgQBEggTB4dWAw8LmgGWFA2JVIssaYVpYQOIJYwCjQeDJoFrgm+CGQ X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6894"; a="141357774" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 17:27:43 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com [173.36.12.89]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACHRgQA021220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:27:43 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com ([169.254.3.25]) by xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com ([173.36.12.89]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:27:42 -0600 From: "Andrew McLachlan (amclachl)" <amclachl@cisco.com> To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: AQHNwPjH4xU7cfD1HUuQSkqvd14b0Jfm2KyA Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:27:41 +0000 Message-ID: <71856D87EAE6874FB4E434D2882D12A411C660@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.92.80] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19356.005 x-tm-as-result: No--43.254700-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_71856D87EAE6874FB4E434D2882D12A411C660xmbalnx08ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:27:45 -0000 --_000_71856D87EAE6874FB4E434D2882D12A411C660xmbalnx08ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm ok with the current one, and it's kinda stuck in a lot of peoples minds= . Might be a bit like changing the name of a puppy after 6 months of callin= g him Rover.... On 12 Nov 2012, at 17:11, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com<mailto:akatlas@gmai= l.com>> wrote: IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me. Alia On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:r= callon@juniper.net>> wrote: I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t= o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m= e of something else. Ross -----Original Message----- From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [ma= ilto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>] On = Behalf Of Lucy yong Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM To: stbryant@cisco.com<mailto:stbryant@cisco.com>; Raveendra Torvi Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>>; irs-discuss@ietf.org= <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? I like this name: I2RS. Lucy > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [= mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>] > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM > To: Raveendra Torvi > Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>>; irs-discuss@ietf.o= rg<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote: > > My first set of suggestions: > > > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system. > That as well > > Stewart > > > > > IRNE - interface to routing network element. > > IRE - interface to routing element > > INE - interface to network element. > > APIRS - API to RS. > > APIRE > > > > Ravi > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailt= o:adrian@olddog.co.uk>> > wrote: > > > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. > I've had > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to > not want to > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. > >> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If > we really > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also > used for > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. > >> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to > IRS need to > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions > to be > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will > possibly reach a > >> serious conclusion quickly. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Adrian > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> irs-discuss mailing list > >> irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > irs-discuss mailing list > > irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > > > -- > For corporate legal information go to: > > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss --_000_71856D87EAE6874FB4E434D2882D12A411C660xmbalnx08ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <FE2F674DC93423448BBAB016FAD15241@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; "> <div><br> </div> <div>I'm ok with the current one, and it's kinda stuck in a lot of peoples = minds. Might be a bit like changing the name of a puppy after 6 months of c= alling him Rover....</div> <br> <div> <div>On 12 Nov 2012, at 17:11, Alia Atlas <<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gma= il.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>></div> <div> wrote:</div> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me. <div><br> </div> <div>Alia</div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <s= pan dir=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">rcallon@junipe= r.net</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t= o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m= e of something else.<br> <span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br> Ross<br> </font></span> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"> <div class=3D"h5"><br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@i= etf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-dis= cuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Lucy yong<br> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">stbryant@cisco.com</a>; Raveendra= Torvi<br> Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>>;= <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org"> irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> <br> I like this name: I2RS.<br> Lucy<br> <br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-boun= ces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">ir= s-discuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<br> > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM<br> > To: Raveendra Torvi<br> > Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>= >; <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org"> irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> ><br> > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:<br> > > My first set of suggestions:<br> > ><br> > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.<br> > That as well<br> ><br> > Stewart<br> ><br> > ><br> > > IRNE - interface to routing network element.<br> > > IRE - interface to routing element<br> > > INE - interface to network element.<br> > > APIRS - API to RS.<br> > > APIRE<br> > ><br> > > Ravi<br> > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>><br> > wrote:<br> > ><br> > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a = bit sad.<br> > I've had<br> > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variabl= es to<br> > not want to<br> > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> > >><br> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of I= RS. If<br> > we really<br> > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is= also<br> > used for<br> > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> > >><br> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong object= ion to<br> > IRS need to<br> > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need sugg= estions<br> > to be<br> > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we wi= ll<br> > possibly reach a<br> > >> serious conclusion quickly.<br> > >><br> > >> Thanks,<br> > >> Adrian<br> > >><br> > >> _______________________________________________<br> > >> irs-discuss mailing list<br> > >> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org<= /a><br> > >> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss"= target=3D"_blank"> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> > >><br> > > _______________________________________________<br> > > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><= br> > > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" tar= get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> > ><br> ><br> ><br> > --<br> > For corporate legal information go to:<br> ><br> > <a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ind= ex.html" target=3D"_blank"> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target= =3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss<br> </div> <br> </body> </html> --_000_71856D87EAE6874FB4E434D2882D12A411C660xmbalnx08ciscocom_-- Return-Path: <gmattson@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9DC21F86EA for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS025.bigfish.com (snatpool1.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.248]) by mail99-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D76340180; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BLUPRD0511HT001.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.232.213) by CH1EHSMHS025.bigfish.com (10.43.70.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:56 +0000 Received: from BLUPRD0511MB436.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.4.84]) by BLUPRD0511HT001.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.135.164]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:51 +0000 From: Geoffrey Mattson <gmattson@juniper.net> To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQAAkBWdAAFO/IAAANLaAAAAcbLQAAHPbYD//31PAA== Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:51 +0000 Message-ID: <BDBDE06394B5D448AC51F6A965506BE807984E@BLUPRD0511MB436.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 x-originating-ip: [10.255.135.132] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BDBDE06394B5D448AC51F6A965506BE807984EBLUPRD0511MB436na_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%GMAIL.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%HUAWEI.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:21:31 -0000 --_000_BDBDE06394B5D448AC51F6A965506BE807984EBLUPRD0511MB436na_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to suggest: Programmatic Interface to Routing System or PIRS. There are other interfaces to the routing system but IRS is programmatic. S= o=85 From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com<mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>> Date: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:11 AM To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:rcallon@juniper.net>> Cc: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com<mailto:lucy.yong@huawei.com>>, "irs-dis= cuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org>" <irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:ir= s-discuss@ietf.org>> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me. Alia On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net<mailto:r= callon@juniper.net>> wrote: I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t= o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m= e of something else. Ross -----Original Message----- From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [ma= ilto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>] On = Behalf Of Lucy yong Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM To: stbryant@cisco.com<mailto:stbryant@cisco.com>; Raveendra Torvi Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>>; irs-discuss@ietf.org= <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? I like this name: I2RS. Lucy > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [= mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>] > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM > To: Raveendra Torvi > Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>>; irs-discuss@ietf.o= rg<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote: > > My first set of suggestions: > > > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system. > That as well > > Stewart > > > > > IRNE - interface to routing network element. > > IRE - interface to routing element > > INE - interface to network element. > > APIRS - API to RS. > > APIRE > > > > Ravi > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailt= o:adrian@olddog.co.uk>> > wrote: > > > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. > I've had > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to > not want to > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. > >> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If > we really > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also > used for > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. > >> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to > IRS need to > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions > to be > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will > possibly reach a > >> serious conclusion quickly. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Adrian > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> irs-discuss mailing list > >> irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > irs-discuss mailing list > > irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > > > -- > For corporate legal information go to: > > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss --_000_BDBDE06394B5D448AC51F6A965506BE807984EBLUPRD0511MB436na_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <E7DCDC7CEE98A247AEF87357F86C015D@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> </head> <body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin= e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami= ly: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <div>I'd like to suggest:</div> <div>Programmatic Interface to Routing System or PIRS.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>There are other interfaces to the routing system but IRS is programmat= ic. So=85</div> <div><br> </div> <span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b= lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:= 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;= BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Alia Atlas <<a href=3D"mai= lto:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, November 12, 2012 9:1= 1 AM<br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Ross Callon <<a href=3D"mail= to:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Lucy yong <<a href=3D"mailto= :lucy.yong@huawei.com">lucy.yong@huawei.com</a>>, "<a href=3D"mailt= o:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailt= o:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a>><br> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [irs-discuss] What's i= n a name?<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div> <div>IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me. <div><br> </div> <div>Alia</div> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <s= pan dir=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">rcallon@junipe= r.net</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t= o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m= e of something else.<br> <span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br> Ross<br> </font></span> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"> <div class=3D"h5"><br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@i= etf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-dis= cuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Lucy yong<br> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">stbryant@cisco.com</a>; Raveendra= Torvi<br> Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>>;= <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org"> irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> <br> I like this name: I2RS.<br> Lucy<br> <br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-boun= ces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">ir= s-discuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<br> > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM<br> > To: Raveendra Torvi<br> > Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>= >; <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org"> irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> ><br> > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:<br> > > My first set of suggestions:<br> > ><br> > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.<br> > That as well<br> ><br> > Stewart<br> ><br> > ><br> > > IRNE - interface to routing network element.<br> > > IRE - interface to routing element<br> > > INE - interface to network element.<br> > > APIRS - API to RS.<br> > > APIRE<br> > ><br> > > Ravi<br> > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>><br> > wrote:<br> > ><br> > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a = bit sad.<br> > I've had<br> > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variabl= es to<br> > not want to<br> > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> > >><br> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of I= RS. If<br> > we really<br> > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is= also<br> > used for<br> > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> > >><br> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong object= ion to<br> > IRS need to<br> > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need sugg= estions<br> > to be<br> > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we wi= ll<br> > possibly reach a<br> > >> serious conclusion quickly.<br> > >><br> > >> Thanks,<br> > >> Adrian<br> > >><br> > >> _______________________________________________<br> > >> irs-discuss mailing list<br> > >> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org<= /a><br> > >> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss"= target=3D"_blank"> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> > >><br> > > _______________________________________________<br> > > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><= br> > > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" tar= get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> > ><br> ><br> ><br> > --<br> > For corporate legal information go to:<br> ><br> > <a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ind= ex.html" target=3D"_blank"> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target= =3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </span> </body> </html> --_000_BDBDE06394B5D448AC51F6A965506BE807984EBLUPRD0511MB436na_-- Return-Path: <rtorvi@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2617721F86E4 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:20:22 -0800 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:20:21 -0800 Received: from va3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (216.32.180.11) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:22:45 -0800 Received: from mail213-va3-R.bigfish.com (10.7.14.238) by VA3EHSOBE003.bigfish.com (10.7.40.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:21 +0000 Received: from mail213-va3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail213-va3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FB0540322 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:21 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.237.149; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:BY2PRD0511HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -24 X-BigFish: PS-24(zz9371I542M1432I4015Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0l1155h) Received: from mail213-va3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail213-va3 (MessageSwitch) id 1352740819330434_20426; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from VA3EHSMHS028.bigfish.com (unknown [10.7.14.249]) by mail213-va3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448526C0043; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BY2PRD0511HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.237.149) by VA3EHSMHS028.bigfish.com (10.7.99.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:14 +0000 Received: from BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.4.143]) by BY2PRD0511HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.129.39]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:14 +0000 From: Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net> To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQABNjBQAAFSTIA= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:12 +0000 Message-ID: <41AF8A5228F88746A65052DC6DE0739B0310ABC9@BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%OLDDOG.CO.UK$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:47 -0000 Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web se= arch results. Best, Ravi > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of Ross Callon > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:30 AM > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > I don't like the "IRS" acronym due to the similarity to the US tax folks. >=20 > RSI seems like a sensible acronym to me, and similar enough that people c= an > make the connection. I am not sure what else RSI stands for, but Googling > it right now I didn't see anything that would either confuse us, sue us, = or > audit our taxes (repetitive strain injury being the most obvious use of i= t > -- I am assuming that Radio Slovakia won't notice if we use the acronym f= or > something else). >=20 > Ross >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM > To: irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v= e > had > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not wa= nt > to > spend any more time on this sort of thing. >=20 > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we > really > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used f= or > something else) we need to find a solution soon. >=20 > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS > need to > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to b= e > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly > reach a > serious conclusion quickly. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <melinda.shore@gmail.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD5D21F86E4 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:19:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.723 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.723 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.124, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hazx10aYZ2bd for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:19:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com (mail-pb0-f44.google.com [209.85.160.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9285D21F86DC for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:19:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id uo1so1138012pbc.31 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:19:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bJJqDIXt7zfrRa0P+ATEV8vCFTY2F+5B7YU70VuozXk=; b=u6m5K36V/l8luMnyq4IORheXRI8x3tS6sOqao/ZRplD767dunWXqlumJWk41rP68Xc zz6NM/vPOCm4G7b/an7YJTw1/AKcEowspTS3uK8LM8nMcM77EkPtd59YyxjtyofiJFsV R3hsVFUWGmSw/M7imJZyi9BxuoDczeipcHfkKEVroZZunkgujZOIqlIofao4GvkQgL6h n107nbbKmTdWJ1G89Fika+5+YMvy5LfUZhjsIr3HsteXQtTosgg89hFjPAHwe3kZxY4L 1eRAST7FzumGY4NLB+YvlOggcblFatoismUH3XCrEsSoG4Ur2BxykxteqfdB4F+cFEac xl5Q== Received: by 10.66.90.73 with SMTP id bu9mr56578946pab.71.1352740770277; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:19:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from spandex.local (216-67-71-89-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net. [216.67.71.89]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k4sm4595096pax.7.2012.11.12.09.19.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:19:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50A12F9F.2040803@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:19:27 -0900 From: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: irs-discuss@ietf.org References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:19:31 -0000 On 11/12/12 8:11 AM, Alia Atlas wrote: > IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me. Me too. I'm fine with the name as-is and I'd be fine with renaming it quickly. I'd be less enthusiastic about beating this to death. Melinda Return-Path: <akatlas@gmail.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE93321F8609 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:11:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NhelLC2Z-Izm for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:11:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com (mail-ie0-f172.google.com [209.85.223.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B30521F85C2 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:11:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 9so10392778iec.31 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:11:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=RVOogqnaTLvr9xAUXPiszBJdaauTRtceVAlbGc1In+g=; b=yijg6dRArsgof2OwvJPtY2xSB7rQDHfXTtgbjdN9UB7NBHq4fc0BEAYQ0kbYnLKlf8 Ua+c26mTCiwtJfDQC8fYBQx7M13yyzY8/6NL0zI8xGGqDzQCCJaSk41Qu0s8MMvdYZzy egkwsFgEfHDY2lep99Iy+opK4/nvJXZMlkhnjxwZknOtwr1KeD1sKEJOLRpwCkO19JOf v6YWfOBtYPc0Om+VLckF3reUp4OTum1DeFeiLeDDmEoOpy3Dksz/JSSlAvNZNrWQ+hn5 K+pJtocS+tXcjDDvok9rVyvlKRfosHXLbNF5VltFLi0cExoYbmrLer1AD7+wxG8Kl8kp CQfA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.104.209 with SMTP id s17mr15823443ico.11.1352740299699; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.127.164 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:11:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:11:39 -0500 Message-ID: <CAG4d1rfyua9L26H9=x9Q1BPj9RzgRXv-QGX5XvyV72eg87-2dw@mail.gmail.com> From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3036395b09764904ce4f65f4 Cc: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:11:41 -0000 --20cf3036395b09764904ce4f65f4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me. Alia On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> wrote: > I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough > to IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding > me of something else. > > Ross > > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Lucy yong > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM > To: stbryant@cisco.com; Raveendra Torvi > Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > I like this name: I2RS. > Lucy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] > > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM > > To: Raveendra Torvi > > Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; irs-discuss@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > > > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote: > > > My first set of suggestions: > > > > > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system. > > That as well > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > IRNE - interface to routing network element. > > > IRE - interface to routing element > > > INE - interface to network element. > > > APIRS - API to RS. > > > APIRE > > > > > > Ravi > > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> > > wrote: > > > > > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. > > I've had > > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to > > not want to > > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. > > >> > > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If > > we really > > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also > > used for > > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. > > >> > > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to > > IRS need to > > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions > > to be > > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will > > possibly reach a > > >> serious conclusion quickly. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Adrian > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> irs-discuss mailing list > > >> irs-discuss@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > irs-discuss mailing list > > > irs-discuss@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > > > > > > > -- > > For corporate legal information go to: > > > > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > irs-discuss mailing list > > irs-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > --20cf3036395b09764904ce4f65f4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me.<div><br></div><div>Alia</div><div c= lass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 201= 2 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@= juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">rcallon@juniper.net</a>></span> wrote:<br= > <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. A= ny of them are similar enough to IRS to help us make the connection, withou= t being confused or reminding me of something else.<br> <span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br> Ross<br> </font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@i= etf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-dis= cuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Lucy yong<br> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">stbryant@cisco.com</a>; Raveendra= Torvi<br> Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>>;= <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> <br> I like this name: I2RS.<br> Lucy<br> <br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-boun= ces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">ir= s-discuss-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<br> > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM<br> > To: Raveendra Torvi<br> > Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>= >; <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br> ><br> > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:<br> > > My first set of suggestions:<br> > ><br> > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.<br> > That as well<br> ><br> > Stewart<br> ><br> > ><br> > > IRNE - interface to routing network element.<br> > > IRE - interface to routing element<br> > > INE - interface to network element.<br> > > APIRS - API to RS.<br> > > APIRE<br> > ><br> > > Ravi<br> > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>><br> > wrote:<br> > ><br> > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a = bit sad.<br> > I've had<br> > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variabl= es to<br> > not want to<br> > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> > >><br> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of I= RS. If<br> > we really<br> > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is= also<br> > used for<br> > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> > >><br> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong object= ion to<br> > IRS need to<br> > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need = suggestions<br> > to be<br> > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we wi= ll<br> > possibly reach a<br> > >> serious conclusion quickly.<br> > >><br> > >> Thanks,<br> > >> Adrian<br> > >><br> > >> _______________________________________________<br> > >> irs-discuss mailing list<br> > >> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org<= /a><br> > >> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss"= target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br= > > >><br> > > _______________________________________________<br> > > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><= br> > > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" tar= get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> > ><br> ><br> ><br> > --<br> > For corporate legal information go to:<br> ><br> > <a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ind= ex.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/le= gal/cri/index.html</a><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target= =3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> --20cf3036395b09764904ce4f65f4-- Return-Path: <edc@google.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BC721F8630 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:09:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.71.167 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:08:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <A85A8D80-8BC3-441E-A5F1-34C308F74FC4@juniper.net> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <A85A8D80-8BC3-441E-A5F1-34C308F74FC4@juniper.net> From: Edward Crabbe <edc@google.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:08:42 -0800 Message-ID: <CACKN6JGqsPQ5ACHj52m5SETCn0s8+DqWv3c_kshnEKSb4kkvuw@mail.gmail.com> To: Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b67846ed9223504ce4f5c3d X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnZcyHdXFQ5tYomwUi0Qwj5IAumHbqpUedIexmAOAAQmpmLIdzymOjLPcpOytZZ9QJuhk964sq+r10AMCO3mkY6EuBOPtQTnuk5/FpJu4N08n0A585PJPD11d+MeM01p0o7kisZoXnXm6NHpoxNXGziI2rPQxRd1SHqnag7v6PbNoGNS9D0UawFHJr2uVfagmjl9FjM Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:09:23 -0000 --047d7b67846ed9223504ce4f5c3d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 +1 On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net> wrote: > for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' is not as negative co-notated as one > might guess. > it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle (press > articles, in-house chatter) > and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further > confusion; > keeping status quo is IMO less painful; > > /hannes > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. > I've had > > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not > want to > > spend any more time on this sort of thing. > > > > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we > really > > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used > for > > something else) we need to find a solution soon. > > > > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS > need to > > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to > be > > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly > reach a > > serious conclusion quickly. > > > > Thanks, > > Adrian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > irs-discuss mailing list > > irs-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > --047d7b67846ed9223504ce4f5c3d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">+1<br>= <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Hannes Gred= ler <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:hannes@juniper.net" target=3D"_= blank">hannes@juniper.net</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' = is not as negative co-notated as one might guess.<br> it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle (press ar= ticles, in-house chatter)<br> and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further confusi= on;<br> keeping status quo is IMO less painful;<br> <br> /hannes<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:<br> <br> > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. = I've had<br> > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not= want to<br> > spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br> ><br> > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we= really<br> > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also use= d for<br> > something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br> ><br> > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IR= S need to<br> > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestio= ns to be<br> > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possib= ly reach a<br> > serious conclusion quickly.<br> ><br> > Thanks,<br> > Adrian<br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > irs-discuss mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> > <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target= =3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> ><br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> irs-discuss mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> --047d7b67846ed9223504ce4f5c3d-- Return-Path: <C.Grundemann@cablelabs.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02F121F854B for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:44:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.463 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.463 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hTrfLbS3rqmw for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:44:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ondar.cablelabs.com (ondar.cablelabs.com [192.160.73.61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8746921F86E5 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:44:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from kyzyl.cablelabs.com (kyzyl [10.253.0.7]) by ondar.cablelabs.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACGiisn026788; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:44 -0700 Received: from srvxchg.cablelabs.com (10.5.0.15) by kyzyl.cablelabs.com (F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/407/kyzyl.cablelabs.com); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:44 -0700 (MST) X-Virus-Status: clean(F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/407/kyzyl.cablelabs.com) Received: from srvxchg.cablelabs.com ([10.5.0.15]) by srvxchg ([10.5.0.15]) with mapi; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:44 -0700 From: Chris Grundemann <C.Grundemann@cablelabs.com> To: Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:44 -0700 Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A9QT68qG5iFRcS3uqXvCMtxtEWQ== Message-ID: <CCC67519.C54C%c.grundemann@cablelabs.com> In-Reply-To: <A85A8D80-8BC3-441E-A5F1-34C308F74FC4@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Approved: ondar Cc: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:44:53 -0000 On 11/12/12 8:04 AM, "Hannes Gredler" <hannes@juniper.net> wrote: >for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' is not as negative co-notated as one >might guess. >it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle (press >articles, in-house chatter) >and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further >confusion; >keeping status quo is IMO less painful; +1, context matters and I don't see the US revenue service getting involved in routing anytime soon (or at least we can hope)=8A I say stick with IRS. $0.02 ~Chris > >/hannes > >On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. >>I've had >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not >>want to >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. >>=20 >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we >>really >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used >>for >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. >>=20 >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS >>need to >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to >>be >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will >>possibly reach a >> serious conclusion quickly. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Adrian >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> irs-discuss mailing list >> irs-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >>=20 > > >_______________________________________________ >irs-discuss mailing list >irs-discuss@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4CE821F8735 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:44:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jt4lbOWrvzVS for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.lcs.mit.edu (mercury.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B59721F847C for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 11178) id C991318C0CE; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:41:50 -0500 (EST) To: irs-discuss@ietf.org Message-Id: <20121112164150.C991318C0CE@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:41:50 -0500 (EST) From: jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Cc: jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:44:39 -0000 > From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> > are similar enough to IRS to help us make the connection I was thinking the exact same thing. I myself prefer ITRS (4-letter acronyms have less chance of mental confusion - when I see RSI, I think 'Repetitive Stress Injury'). Noel Return-Path: <lucy.yong@huawei.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFFD821F85CB for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:27:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.350, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qPqXji-2OG3x for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95FD21F85AD for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ALL57350; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:27:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:27:24 +0000 Received: from DFWEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.203) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:27:30 +0000 Received: from DFWEML505-MBX.china.huawei.com ([10.124.31.100]) by dfweml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.203]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:27:28 -0800 From: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com> To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: AQHNwOx3MOAzfaILhk+phLF6ziJvgpfmXW8wgACKOwD//3qacA== Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:27:28 +0000 Message-ID: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FC14@dfweml505-mbx> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.80.50] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:27:35 -0000 IMO: ITRS may be better than I2RS. It has the indication for both Interface= To Routing System and IT to Routing System. The latter means a programmati= c interface. Lucy=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Ross Callon > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:21 AM > To: Lucy yong > Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar > enough to IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or > reminding me of something else. >=20 > Ross >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Lucy yong > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM > To: stbryant@cisco.com; Raveendra Torvi > Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > I like this name: I2RS. > Lucy >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss- > bounces@ietf.org] > > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM > > To: Raveendra Torvi > > Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; irs-discuss@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > > > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote: > > > My first set of suggestions: > > > > > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system. > > That as well > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > IRNE - interface to routing network element. > > > IRE - interface to routing element > > > INE - interface to network element. > > > APIRS - API to RS. > > > APIRE > > > > > > Ravi > > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> > > wrote: > > > > > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit > sad. > > I've had > > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to > > not want to > > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. > > >> > > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. > If > > we really > > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also > > used for > > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. > > >> > > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection > to > > IRS need to > > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need > suggestions > > to be > > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will > > possibly reach a > > >> serious conclusion quickly. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Adrian > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> irs-discuss mailing list > > >> irs-discuss@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > irs-discuss mailing list > > > irs-discuss@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > > > > > > > -- > > For corporate legal information go to: > > > > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > irs-discuss mailing list > > irs-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <rcallon@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B1021F8660 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.396 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.071, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J26Cu-459db6 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og109.obsmtp.com (exprod7og109.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.171]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C80D21F84CD for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob109.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUKEiVYAFdF14amLfgaF9W7hriWMFL08m@postini.com; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:22:45 PST Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:21:07 -0800 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:21:06 -0800 Received: from CH1EHSOBE020.bigfish.com (216.32.181.186) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:23:30 -0800 Received: from mail26-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.245) by CH1EHSOBE020.bigfish.com (10.43.70.77) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:06 +0000 Received: from mail26-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail26-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048854A0188 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.244.213; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:CH1PRD0510HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -26 X-BigFish: PS-26(zzbb2dI98dI9371I542M1432I4015Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL17326ah8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0l1155h) Received: from mail26-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail26-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1352737262779543_29603; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (snatpool1.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.243]) by mail26-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2383160049; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0510HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.244.213) by CH1EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (10.43.70.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:01 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.125]) by CH1PRD0510HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.150.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:01 +0000 From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> To: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQAAkBWdAAFO/IAAANLaAAAAcbLQ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:00 +0000 Message-ID: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525617@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> In-Reply-To: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%HUAWEI.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:22:46 -0000 I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t= o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m= e of something else.=20 Ross -----Original Message----- From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Lucy yong Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM To: stbryant@cisco.com; Raveendra Torvi Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? I like this name: I2RS. Lucy > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM > To: Raveendra Torvi > Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote: > > My first set of suggestions: > > > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system. > That as well >=20 > Stewart >=20 > > > > IRNE - interface to routing network element. > > IRE - interface to routing element > > INE - interface to network element. > > APIRS - API to RS. > > APIRE > > > > Ravi > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> > wrote: > > > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. > I've had > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to > not want to > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. > >> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If > we really > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also > used for > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. > >> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to > IRS need to > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions > to be > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will > possibly reach a > >> serious conclusion quickly. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Adrian > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> irs-discuss mailing list > >> irs-discuss@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > irs-discuss mailing list > > irs-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > >=20 >=20 > -- > For corporate legal information go to: >=20 > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <lucy.yong@huawei.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CEFB21F8681 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:07:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.231 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.231 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.368, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KAdTOjm456Sn for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDD521F8679 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AMR49366; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:07:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:07:06 +0000 Received: from DFWEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.102) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:07:11 +0000 Received: from DFWEML505-MBX.china.huawei.com ([10.124.31.100]) by dfweml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.102]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:07:07 -0800 From: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com> To: "stbryant@cisco.com" <stbryant@cisco.com>, Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: AQHNwOx3MOAzfaILhk+phLF6ziJvgpfmXW8w Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:07:06 +0000 Message-ID: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D4482FBF5@dfweml505-mbx> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.80.50] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "<adrian@olddog.co.uk>" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:07:14 -0000 I like this name: I2RS. Lucy > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM > To: Raveendra Torvi > Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote: > > My first set of suggestions: > > > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system. > That as well >=20 > Stewart >=20 > > > > IRNE - interface to routing network element. > > IRE - interface to routing element > > INE - interface to network element. > > APIRS - API to RS. > > APIRE > > > > Ravi > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> > wrote: > > > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. > I've had > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to > not want to > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. > >> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If > we really > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also > used for > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. > >> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to > IRS need to > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions > to be > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will > possibly reach a > >> serious conclusion quickly. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Adrian > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> irs-discuss mailing list > >> irs-discuss@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > irs-discuss mailing list > > irs-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > >=20 >=20 > -- > For corporate legal information go to: >=20 > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <stbryant@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F309821F856C for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:44:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.695 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WqJuW7uC2EO5 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:44:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-4.cisco.com (ams-iport-4.cisco.com [144.254.224.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356D221F851F for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:44:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2287; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352735078; x=1353944678; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qxRt5LfTZOEs5ny2Bl6mulJTejCy4TzE6/cr0KiTpGE=; b=mL7IpSHn1Z5Y47RN+bBwWWEk4NIIqOV/CV8mdt3criXJtV5zuC0YTKPD pdAn5rjI17UBA/5nRvvh7N1hv/6epL6tc9J6PtV95X3foRsGo60w5UAEV unX1BRbRnsJDJOKrpVBgq+pmcmc86PopkNE43Ls3HqyTHSmY4yZAImu3p o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAHAYoVCQ/khR/2dsb2JhbABEw1mBCIIeAQEBBAEBAQ8BAhIRNgoBDAQLDgMEAQEBCRYIBwkDAgECARUfCQgGDQEFAgEBFweHaAuaJ4NNEJwCjBWGSgOVfI5YgQZlgm8 X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6893"; a="9519860" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 15:44:37 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACFiaDT005465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:44:37 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id qACFiYvQ009513; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:44:35 GMT Message-ID: <50A11962.1090406@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:44:34 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <B6585D85A128FD47857D0FD58D8120D3A8D386@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <305443B66F0CD946A3107753337A03110B07E8@CH1PRD0511MB431.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <305443B66F0CD946A3107753337A03110B07E8@CH1PRD0511MB431.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:44:39 -0000 Please no, we might want one of those, and IRS does a lot more. Stewart On 12/11/2012 15:19, Gert Grammel wrote: > We have already a PCE, so why not go for a Route Computation Engine (RCE)? > > Gert > > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali) > Sent: Montag, 12. November 2012 16:05 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? > > Hi All- > > How about IRE (system -> engine). > > n.b. I do not have any objection to IRS (they just charge too much tax ;-)) or favor to any name. > > Thanks > > Regards...Zafar > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel >> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM >> To: irs-discuss@ietf.org >> Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >> >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. >> I've had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of >> variables to not want to spend any more time on this sort of thing. >> >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we >> really need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is >> also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon. >> >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to >> IRS need to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need >> suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly reach a serious conclusion quickly. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> irs-discuss mailing list >> irs-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > -- For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html Return-Path: <stbryant@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA1021F851F for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:43:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.707 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.707 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v0u0Ls-A4R04 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:43:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-4.cisco.com (ams-iport-4.cisco.com [144.254.224.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E3B21F84D8 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:43:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1583; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352735014; x=1353944614; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iwcgDAovRAW7+H5kyweZcnD4H9khsn5CdPilZJzVdXw=; b=kkWg7g+nG0tRuT6WSOpTI45iYckvYcBPxYfMDV2S52CErn5P+O2p+N2h 51zA6s2x669C9hj3rIW277iR6zS8Ta8M20WbytGEeCULog7MghddENxka Ho3Osh4mdT2dpOvCkaWN8gVZNdE5Z/5wGwWwRio5TaxvsDWUEtFQKmro2 A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAHAYoVCQ/khN/2dsb2JhbABEw1mBCIIeAQEBAwEBAQEPAQIjNgoBEAsOCgkWDwkDAgECARUwBg0BBQIBARcHh2IGC5ong00QnAKMFYZKA5V8jliBBmWCbw X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6893"; a="9519845" Received: from ams-core-4.cisco.com ([144.254.72.77]) by ams-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 15:43:33 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACFhX8p029347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:43:33 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id qACFhVVx009415; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:43:31 GMT Message-ID: <50A11923.4040004@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:43:31 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "<adrian@olddog.co.uk>" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:43:35 -0000 On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote: > My first set of suggestions: > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system. That as well Stewart > > IRNE - interface to routing network element. > IRE - interface to routing element > INE - interface to network element. > APIRS - API to RS. > APIRE > > Ravi > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've had >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want to >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. >> >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we really >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. >> >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS need to >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly reach a >> serious conclusion quickly. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> irs-discuss mailing list >> irs-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > -- For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html Return-Path: <stbryant@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F402D21F8514 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:42:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.723 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.723 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.124, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVgY-eYwpjBV for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1B7B21F84D8 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:42:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1266; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352734959; x=1353944559; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QOWM9ezfeS8jvor9/8rXbi1KOrvlygGy+czQurHovMU=; b=S9Z/KdA+B0QKU4wQ9A78xZUlLDreaHN0Q9qcVG/O6efXvz4GD0g1KM7d lsH7OsEomdKQQDsmbT6qDgVR80yHoOV2WtXBrzr6IGugg5d0pKKGaJIi3 Pvagustv/L71FeqxPBUr0AW0Pa87U5sMel6UM/1NzrZYMRwBRisniO2fW M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAPMXoVCQ/khL/2dsb2JhbABEw1mBCIIeAQEBBAEBAQ8BAiM2CgEQCxgJFg8JAwIBAgEVMBMBBQIBARcHh2gLmieDTRCbfASMFYMjgycDlXyOWIEGZYJv X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6893"; a="78172294" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 15:42:38 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACFga0R030061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:42:36 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id qACFgYjX009241; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:42:35 GMT Message-ID: <50A118EA.1020409@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:42:34 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:42:39 -0000 On 12/11/2012 14:49, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've had > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want to > spend any more time on this sort of thing. > > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we really > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for > something else) we need to find a solution soon. > > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS need to > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly reach a > serious conclusion quickly. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss > I can sort of understand why IRS (which I assume has humor (without a u) in its origin) causes concern to some. I guess I would mildly prefer another name, but continuing with IRS is not a show stopper. Why not simply put back one of the "T"s The WG will be "Interface to the routing system" so how about ITRS. - Stewart Return-Path: <rcallon@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E493221F85C4 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:33:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.391 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.391 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YAcjHH0bV7VD for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og104.obsmtp.com (exprod7og104.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.161]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D0321F85AC for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob104.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUKEW0xAPCr3sjBwePN9a5IcZXRyEKniv@postini.com; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:33:40 PST Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:30:19 -0800 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.224) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:30:19 -0800 Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (216.32.180.184) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:37:15 -0800 Received: from mail127-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.248) by CO1EHSOBE006.bigfish.com (10.243.66.69) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:16 +0000 Received: from mail127-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail127-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4C9A800E4 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.244.213; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:CH1PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -23 X-BigFish: PS-23(zz9371I542M4015Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0l1155h) Received: from mail127-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail127-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1352734214788863_9932; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.234]) by mail127-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B499F98004A; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.244.213) by CO1EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (10.243.66.39) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:11 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.125]) by CH1PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.150.39]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:10 +0000 From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQABNjBQ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:09 +0000 Message-ID: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD302525590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%OLDDOG.CO.UK$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:33:42 -0000 I don't like the "IRS" acronym due to the similarity to the US tax folks.=20 RSI seems like a sensible acronym to me, and similar enough that people can= make the connection. I am not sure what else RSI stands for, but Googling = it right now I didn't see anything that would either confuse us, sue us, or= audit our taxes (repetitive strain injury being the most obvious use of it= -- I am assuming that Radio Slovakia won't notice if we use the acronym fo= r something else).=20 Ross -----Original Message----- From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM To: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've = had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want= to spend any more time on this sort of thing. However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real= ly need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon. Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee= d to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re= ach a serious conclusion quickly. Thanks, Adrian _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <acee.lindem@ericsson.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7E621F85C4 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:30:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ug2nEJH3MrWX for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:30:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31CC221F85AC for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:30:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qACFUf73001660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:30:48 -0600 Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (147.117.188.84) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se (147.117.20.181) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.279.1; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:30:41 -0500 Received: from EUSAAMB101.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.118]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:30:41 -0500 From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com> To: Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: AQHNwOqsVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQ== Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:41 +0000 Message-ID: <94A203EA12AECE4BA92D42DBFFE0AE4701BEBD@EUSAAMB101.ericsson.se> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <A85A8D80-8BC3-441E-A5F1-34C308F74FC4@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <A85A8D80-8BC3-441E-A5F1-34C308F74FC4@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-127-764885259"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "<irs-discuss@ietf.org>" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail-127-764885259 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I also have no problem with IRS as the WG name. Furthermore, I am = confident that, as a magnanimous US tax payer, I have more than paid the = royalties on the usage of the acronym.=20 Having said that, the alternate name that comes to my mind is L3SDN. = However, this may be considered a bit too broad.=20 Acee=20 On Nov 12, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Hannes Gredler wrote: > for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' is not as negative co-notated as = one might guess. > it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle = (press articles, in-house chatter) > and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further = confusion; > keeping status quo is IMO less painful; >=20 > /hannes >=20 > On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >=20 >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. = I've had >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to = not want to >> spend any more time on this sort of thing. >>=20 >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If = we really >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also = used for >> something else) we need to find a solution soon. >>=20 >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to = IRS need to >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions = to be >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will = possibly reach a >> serious conclusion quickly. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Adrian >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> irs-discuss mailing list >> irs-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >>=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss --Apple-Mail-127-764885259 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM8jCCBDQw ggMcoAMCAQICECFWwVQHDV12M/Sr0yNv0sYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJp Y3Nzb24xJDAiBgNVBAMMG0VyaWNzc29uIE5MIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EwMTAeFw0xMDEwMDEyMDA0 NTlaFw0xMzEwMDEyMDA0NDhaMG8xETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMR8wHQYDVQQDDBZBY2VlIExp bmRlbSBMaW5kZW0gSUlJMRAwDgYDVQQFEwdlYWxmbGluMScwJQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhhhY2VlLmxp 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Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2C821F8682 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:21:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.333, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wvMEWeo3-jZD for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ihemail3.lucent.com (ihemail3.lucent.com [135.245.0.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5B421F860D for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from usnavsmail4.ndc.alcatel-lucent.com (usnavsmail4.ndc.alcatel-lucent.com [135.3.39.12]) by ihemail3.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id qACFLPTn018011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:21:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from umail.lucent.com (umail-ce2.ndc.lucent.com [135.3.40.63]) by usnavsmail4.ndc.alcatel-lucent.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/GMO) with ESMTP id qACFLPcD020436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:21:25 -0600 Received: from shoonya.ih.lucent.com (shoonya.ih.lucent.com [135.185.237.229]) by umail.lucent.com (8.13.8/TPES) with ESMTP id qACFLOGJ021157 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:21:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <50A11442.5080908@bell-labs.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:22:42 -0600 From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" <vkg@bell-labs.com> Organization: Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120605 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: irs-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.37 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 135.3.39.12 Subject: [irs-discuss] IRS and I2AEX BoF X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:21:31 -0000 All: During the discussion in Atlanta, I had pointed to some overlap between IRS and a BoF held in Paris called i2aex (Infrastructure to Application Information Exchange). i2aex maintains that the network infrastructure has volumnious amount of information that is disseminated among the network infrastructure entities using many existing protocols: BGP, IGP, netflow, CLI/SSH, SNMP, etc. Applications running outside the network infrastructure (or even in the network infrastructure) would likely benefit from this information. So, the question is: in a fully- and partially-controlled environments, how do we disseminate this information to the applications? Do we need a new protocol for this? Can we extend ALTO since a lot of the requirements for this work came into the ALTO WG initially? To some extent (modulo whether ALTO can be a candidate protocol), the above captures the essence of slide 3 in [1]. We had a good discussion that may have some bearing on IRS. For folks who are interested, the slides and chunked audio stream (i.e., audio stream corresponding to each agenda item discussion) is at [2]. i2aex met as a non-WG forming BoF as well in Paris and concluded after having met its objective in winnowing down the set of potential protocols that could serve as an i2aex interface [3]. I understand that IRS is not looking for a specific protocol right now, but some of what was discussed during i2aex may be of interest to the IRS folks. Please let me and Spencer Dawkins (co-chairs of i2aex BoF) know if you have any specific questions. [1] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-irs-1.pptx [2] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/minutes/minutes-83-i2aex.html [3] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/altoext/current/msg00083.html Thanks, - vijay -- Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent 1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA) Email: vkg@{bell-labs.com,acm.org} / vijay.gurbani@alcatel-lucent.com Web: http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/vkg/ Return-Path: <ggrammel@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6EF21F862E for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:19:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MR17se+IF6Y2 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og114.obsmtp.com (exprod7og114.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.215]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F2C21F85F0 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:19:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob114.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUKETkj3sIjxLtlD7a4tr8lzHabEP31KZ@postini.com; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:19:47 PST Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:19:35 -0800 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:19:35 -0800 Received: from CO9EHSOBE035.bigfish.com (207.46.163.28) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:21:58 -0800 Received: from mail168-co9-R.bigfish.com (10.236.132.241) by CO9EHSOBE035.bigfish.com (10.236.130.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:34 +0000 Received: from mail168-co9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail168-co9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C40B1C00C9 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.197; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:CH1PRD0511HT003.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -25 X-BigFish: PS-25(zz9371I542M1432I4015I14ffIzz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0l1155h) Received: from mail168-co9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail168-co9 (MessageSwitch) id 1352733572696542_14846; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO9EHSMHS028.bigfish.com (unknown [10.236.132.236]) by mail168-co9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61A18C0056; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0511HT003.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.197) by CO9EHSMHS028.bigfish.com (10.236.130.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:30 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0511MB431.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.204]) by CH1PRD0511HT003.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.159.38]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:21 +0000 From: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net> To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQAAbRswAACOfHA= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:20 +0000 Message-ID: <305443B66F0CD946A3107753337A03110B07E8@CH1PRD0511MB431.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> <B6585D85A128FD47857D0FD58D8120D3A8D386@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <B6585D85A128FD47857D0FD58D8120D3A8D386@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.224.53] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%OLDDOG.CO.UK$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:48 -0000 We have already a PCE, so why not go for a Route Computation Engine (RCE)? Gert -----Original Message----- From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali) Sent: Montag, 12. November 2012 16:05 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Hi All-=20 How about IRE (system -> engine).=20 n.b. I do not have any objection to IRS (they just charge too much tax ;-))= or favor to any name.=20 Thanks Regards...Zafar > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM > To: irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.=20 > I've had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of=20 > variables to not want to spend any more time on this sort of thing. >=20 > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we=20 > really need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is=20 > also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon. >=20 > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to=20 > IRS need to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need=20 > suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way= we will possibly reach a serious conclusion quickly. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <hannes@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC97221F85B4 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:09:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pXahpfEtJFdD for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og109.obsmtp.com (exprod7og109.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.171]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1827D21F859C for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob109.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUKERQTVrD5f7qUbBy/n6hF6E8bH42aw1@postini.com; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:09:54 PST Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:04:18 -0800 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:04:17 -0800 Received: from tx2outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (65.55.88.14) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:06:38 -0800 Received: from mail79-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.243) by TX2EHSOBE012.bigfish.com (10.9.40.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:13 +0000 Received: from mail79-tx2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail79-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C293F200B3 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.244.213; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:CH1PRD0510HT003.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -24 X-BigFish: PS-24(zz98dI9371I1432I4015Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25he5bhf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah139eh13b6h1441h14ddh1504h1537h1155h) Received: from mail79-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail79-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 1352732652186549_21752; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.236]) by mail79-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27667440072; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0510HT003.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.244.213) by TX2EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (10.9.99.129) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:10 +0000 Received: from nitins-sslvpn-nc.jnpr.net (66.129.224.50) by pod51010.outlook.com (10.255.150.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.233.3; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:04:05 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <A85A8D80-8BC3-441E-A5F1-34C308F74FC4@juniper.net> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-Originating-IP: [66.129.224.50] X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%OLDDOG.CO.UK$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:09:55 -0000 for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' is not as negative co-notated as one = might guess. it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle (press = articles, in-house chatter) and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further = confusion; keeping status quo is IMO less painful; /hannes On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. = I've had > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not = want to > spend any more time on this sort of thing. >=20 > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we = really > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also = used for > something else) we need to find a solution soon. >=20 > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to = IRS need to > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions = to be > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will = possibly reach a > serious conclusion quickly. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 Return-Path: <rtorvi@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0284D21F8531 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:07:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rh1BaLNWJ+LG for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:07:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og107.obsmtp.com (exprod7og107.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.167]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A140B21F844A for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob107.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUKEQrFVIfwF9bRuJImwDH7pDhJJUQh6f@postini.com; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:07:26 PST Received: from P-CLDFE01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.59) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:06:08 -0800 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.224) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:06:07 -0800 Received: from va3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (216.32.180.31) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:13:06 -0800 Received: from mail239-va3-R.bigfish.com (10.7.14.241) by VA3EHSOBE010.bigfish.com (10.7.40.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:06:07 +0000 Received: from mail239-va3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail239-va3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F23580121 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:06:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.237.149; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:BY2PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -23 X-BigFish: PS-23(zz98dI9371I1432I4015Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahz31iz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25he5bhf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh1155h) Received: from mail239-va3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail239-va3 (MessageSwitch) id 1352732764350307_31505; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:06:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from VA3EHSMHS032.bigfish.com (unknown [10.7.14.238]) by mail239-va3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F06A6004B; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:06:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BY2PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.237.149) by VA3EHSMHS032.bigfish.com (10.7.99.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:06:04 +0000 Received: from BY2PRD0511MB416.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.4.143]) by BY2PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.129.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:06:03 +0000 From: Raveendra Torvi <rtorvi@juniper.net> To: "<adrian@olddog.co.uk>" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQAAkBWd Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:06:03 +0000 Message-ID: <2835D71F-AEAE-49B3-8805-99F129C3F168@juniper.net> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [198.228.204.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%OLDDOG.CO.UK$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:07:28 -0000 My first set of suggestions: I2RS- interface 2 routing system. IRNE - interface to routing network element. IRE - interface to routing element INE - interface to network element. APIRS - API to RS. APIRE Ravi=20 On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v= e had > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not wa= nt to > spend any more time on this sort of thing. >=20 > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we re= ally > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used f= or > something else) we need to find a solution soon. >=20 > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS n= eed to > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to b= e > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly = reach a > serious conclusion quickly. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 Return-Path: <zali@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7725B21F85E6 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:04:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m8pJwaugSj-F for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:04:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB61B21F85D5 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:04:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1364; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352732693; x=1353942293; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=7xDVeYpHAonWqSzIVpgOPsK3yX+4PuR55CP3SRi4YzM=; b=DIGntXQgcQMVe3H3lEUPIiXBUCc9L3AG/vlNAzqslTwaW7h7/0yLyl7H SGXepN8ujxdoVuNIwlwPS+Xoes/nmGKAH7xPZzI5Nxnd/OpFfqVc1yjsQ j0cTJN10+cZ2mzoMkArflBbT1zzEgEi1s3LNwOQT498BLsiz/jfaiMIjL 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EADIPoVCtJV2Y/2dsb2JhbABEw1eBCIIeAQEBBAEBAQ8BFBM0FwQCAQgRBAEBCxQJBycLFAkIAQEEARIIEweHaAuaRp9MBIwVhWlhA6RUgWuCb4IZ X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6893"; a="141282789" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 15:04:48 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qACF4m3M023044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:48 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.118]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:04:46 -0600 From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com> To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQAAbRsw Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:46 +0000 Message-ID: <B6585D85A128FD47857D0FD58D8120D3A8D386@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.86.245.186] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19356.005 x-tm-as-result: No--34.929500-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:54 -0000 Hi All-=20 How about IRE (system -> engine).=20 n.b. I do not have any objection to IRS (they just charge too much tax ;-))= or favor to any name.=20 Thanks Regards...Zafar > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Adrian > Farrel > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM > To: irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? >=20 > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v= e had enough code review > hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want to spend any mor= e time on this sort of > thing. >=20 > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we re= ally need to find a new > name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for something else) = we need to find a solution > soon. >=20 > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS n= eed to contribute to the > discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be floated, we need= solid and definite > proposals. That way we will possibly reach a serious conclusion quickly. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <adrian@olddog.co.uk> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 220D221F85A2 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:50:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wgGa37iBHVfB for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ABB021F854C for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qACEnst9004537 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:49:54 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qACEnr9n004519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:49:54 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:49:56 -0000 Message-ID: <015701cdc0e4$fbc439f0$f34cadd0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac3A5PsIVqU8XiJmRGOy8kKrHtrEtQ== Content-Language: en-gb Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name? X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:50:04 -0000 Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want to spend any more time on this sort of thing. However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we really need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon. Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS need to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly reach a serious conclusion quickly. Thanks, Adrian Return-Path: <cpignata@cisco.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D062F21F8546 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:46:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dgUU-ZCz4z1g for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BE121F8531 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:46:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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IMKgwqA8L3A+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_004_95067C434CE250468B77282634C96ED320D73778xmbalnx02ciscoc_-- Return-Path: <shares@ndzh.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729801F0C70 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:30:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.099 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.243, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eXYiTK0rX+wY for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (unknown [64.9.205.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4804121F8462 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:30:01 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=130.129.80.203; Received: from SKH2012HPLT (unverified [130.129.80.203]) by hickoryhill-consulting.com (SurgeMail 5.2a) with ESMTP id 63384-1945496 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:30:00 -0500 From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com> To: <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:30:00 -0500 Message-ID: <004401cdbbb5$db301ad0$91905070$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01CDBB8B.F25A12D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac27tdrX64kNZ19tQKivyFbZhnclGA== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Subject: [irs-discuss] IRS notes from the etherpad scribe X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:30:13 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CDBB8B.F25A12D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0046_01CDBB8B.F25A12D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0046_01CDBB8B.F25A12D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's the notes I took. Sue ------=_NextPart_001_0046_01CDBB8B.F25A12D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META = HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 = (filtered medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-compose; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Here’s the notes I took.<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sue = <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_001_0046_01CDBB8B.F25A12D0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CDBB8B.F25A12D0 Content-Type: text/html; name="irs-etherpath-scribe-non-official-nov-5-2012.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="irs-etherpath-scribe-non-official-nov-5-2012.html" <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" = "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">=0A= <html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang=3D"en" xml:lang=3D"en">=0A= <head>=0A= <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" = />=0A= <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Language" content=3D"en-us" />=0A= <title>/AnZKlitP8F</title>=0A= </head>=0A= <body>Welcome to PiratePad!<br=0A= />raft Agenda for the IRS BOF at IETF 85<br=0A= />Monday November 5, 2012<br=0A= />1740-1940 Afternoon Session III, Salon D<br=0A= /><br=0A= /><ul><li>Agenda-bashing and administrivia (chairs) <ul><li>IPR = note-well was discuss</li=0A= ><li>This is a working group forming BOF so Ross Callon will go through = a potential charter</li=0A= ><li>Dave Ward will go through the questions<br/><br=0A= /></li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= >Scope and purpose of BoF (Adrian Farrel)<br=0A= /><ul><li> Thank you for coming, those who have desires for = elsewhere will be in the bof,</li=0A= ><li>(see slides) </li=0A= ><li>Key elements (from slides) <ul><li>consensus there is work to = be done,</li=0A= ><li>clear focus on topics,</li=0A= ><li>Work is "within scope" of IETF (it could go to routing and/or = operations)</li=0A= ><li>Critical mass commits to do work(more than 1 or 2 people)</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Now.. to chairs to run the meeting<br/><br=0A= /></li=0A= ><li>Overview of Problem Statement and Framework (Joel = Halpern)<ul><li>[see slides] </li=0A= ><li>related to but not the same as the use case. </li=0A= ><li>We are focusing on a problem where applications need to know = dynamically<ul><li>We are talking about a problem, and not a = protocol.</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>What's needed <ul><li>Data modeling for Routing for Routing = & Signaling State<ul><li>SNMP is not a good data model for = anything,</li=0A= ><li>There is a challenge in modeling the policy and the models</li=0A= ><li>(for models see slide)</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>We need a framework to integrate the external data into = Roting<ul><li>indirection, poicy, loop-detection</li=0A= ><li>We need to provide the triage that is needed for the "red alert" = stream</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>We are not starting at protocol - we have lots. We are starting on = data models.</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Main concerns<ul><li>Standard models <ul><li>clear = self-describing semantics</li=0A= ><li>sufficient coverage for use cases needing fact</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>applications are not routers - </li=0A= ><li>security, authorization, & identity<ul><li>we must put it in at = the beginning, Security people tell me it can be added on later.</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>It must scale to large sizes</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>(see diagram on slides)</li=0A= ><li>PAL - slides (see slides)</li=0A= ><li>IRS Interface Key Aspects<ul><li>Multiple simultaneous = asynch<ul><li>long short, some short, parallel opertions</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Configuration <ul><li>We need to interact with the changes of = configuration</li=0A= ><li>(Many implementations can handle interactions to = configuration)</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Must know about capabilties, The applications have to know whatyou = can do. </li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>What IRS is not<ul><li>not config, not router/signaling, not the = only way, </li=0A= ><li>not to replace bgp or ospf pll out </li=0A= ><li>Not to a specific devices or not a specific case</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Start with a Focused Scope<ul><li>small set of data-models (RIB = layer) for control,</li=0A= ><li>Set of events to support related use-cases,</li=0A= ><li>Data-model for topology, </li=0A= ><li>investigate protocol options for the interface</li=0A= ><li>define a set of motivating use-case to drive this scope</li=0A= ><li><br/></li=0A= ><li>We will fail if we try to do all if it!!!!</li=0A= ><li>We have to make extensible, </li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>IRS Policy Framework<ul><li>discussion of diagram </li=0A= ><li>It has to be many-to-many,</li=0A= ><li>Unfortunatey - we can make the simplification of 1 to many,</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Policy Framework Topics<ul><li>Identity </li=0A= ><li>Role</li=0A= ><li>Scope - what I can read</li=0A= ><li>Influence - what I write </li=0A= ><li>Resources<ul><li>that persist and may consume things</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Policy <ul><li>implicit policy - exists within protocols, some = routers choose between,</li=0A= ><li>explicit policy - read and write in the configuration</li=0A= ><li>Both must be represented in the protocol</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Policy Actions<ul><li>We came up with a start-up</li=0A= ><li>We would like review</li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Discussion<ul><li>Kareeti - you are saying application? I see in = the use cases that are app</li=0A= ><li>Joel: The long term answer is both. We want data center = orchestrator to do this eventually. The short term may be the = network-aware,</li=0A= ><li>Kareeti - we should go back to Minneapolis for boiling lakes = instead of oceans. <ul><li>I think your policy is different than = your policy. </li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Joel: The IRS policy is different</li=0A= ><li>Joel: In static it may be possible. In my view it will be with = routing protocols.</li=0A= ><li>-----: IA2EXT - we had a bof to converge in Paris. We were = lloking.</li=0A= ><li>Joel: We should look at the IA2EXT. </li=0A= ><li>Bombi: Please do ot use the work IRS. Try to come with the word = IRS.</li=0A= ><li>Bombi: Is it a network API or a router API? </li=0A= ><li>Joel: This is a control entity or a control commissioners. It = is talking between a control entity and the routers. </li=0A= ><li>Bombi: If you are familar with other things in the other SDOs, you = should review it. </li=0A= ><li>Tom Nadeau: (Channeling Keyur Patel): IRS is suppose to augment not = replace.</li=0A= ><li>Peter: You are assuming multiple control planes talking to this. = Have you looked into the arbirtration in time (yesterday and = today). </li=0A= ><li>Joel: This is described in Policy document. </li=0A= ><li>Edward Crabbe: The 'application' terminology we're using is a bit = confusing; ultimately all the things we're talking about are control = systems and should be treated as such. The second comment is that you = can replace routing protcols with this protocol. Whether you = intended or not.<br/><br=0A= /></li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Overview of Use Cases and Requirements (Shane Amante)<ul><li>See = list of documents for use cases + a few more produced. </li=0A= ><li>Caveat: There are going to quickly summarize contents of drafts. We = are not suggesting that all use cases are being addressed = first. </li=0A= ><li>Look and read the use cases drafts.</li=0A= ><li>In my opinion across several use case drafts is the synthesis of = the information that the routing control plane has it. I think Joel did = a great job of highlighting this draft.</li=0A= ><li>Draft 1: draft-amante-irs-topology-use-cases-00<ul><li>There are = inventory warehouse system that something like this is going to reach = out and get information from. </li=0A= ><li>IRS needs to think about get interfaces into those systems.</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Commonality: TE, VPN, Rapid IP & ASN = renumber, <ul><li>Unique: Caapcity plannig, path cmputation element = (PCE)</li=0A= ><li>ALTO servers</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Draft 2: draft-keyupdate-irs-bgp-usecases-01<ul><li>BGP = configuration largest in the box, MPLS-TP is second.</li=0A= ><li>Having the ability to synchronize and migrate is extremely = important, </li=0A= ><li>Consistent policy is critical</li=0A= ><li>Traffic engineering - is important as shown by Russ White, </li=0A= ><li>Common<ul><li>Flow spec(react to DDOS attacks) similar to = white-irs-use</li=0A= ><li>Optimized ext </li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Draft 3 Draft-white-irs-use-case-00<ul><li>common<ul><li>optimized = extit control - bGP not fine grain control</li=0A= ><li>reacting to DDOS </li=0A= ><li>dynamic optimize flows in hub & spoke network,</li=0A= ><li>Inside DataCenterRouter </li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Unique<ul><li>Between Data Center routing - Bandwidth on = Demand </li=0A= ><li>Fine grain tning of traffic fows in a network</li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Draft 4: Geoffrey Mattson's Draft<ul><li>Optical are off-board, It = is intriguing to be able to monitor bit error-rate be able to be = monitored across a number of links,</li=0A= ><li>It is important to move a number of traffic</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Draft 5: Draft-medved-irs-topology-requirements-00<ul><li>Looks at = the north-bound API - </li=0A= ><li>This goes from the comissioner to the application above it,</li=0A= ><li>Clear need for a data model that can provide a common vocabulary to = describe the elements IRS handles</li=0A= ><li>This use case has protocol requirements </li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Draft 6: = draft-rfernado-irs-framework-requirement-00<ul><li>public-subscribe for = Asynchroous notification fo events that occur</li=0A= ><li>p2p transprot connection between client and a server,</li=0A= ><li>In order, reliable data delivery in both dirctions,</li=0A= ><li>Security requirement: server needs to validate identity of client, = before allowing client</li=0A= ><li>Important: from an application that sit above it - the application = shouldn't have to worry about the mechanisms to provide services. = There should be templates that can be abstracted from the = network.</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Requirement Summary<ul><li>Need standard/comon vocabulary to = describe the functional network components in the IP Routing System = within Standards-based data models,</li=0A= ><li>Need "application friendly" Mechanisms </li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Overall -critical need to make globally optimized = routing/forwarding and configuration changesto entire = network<ul><li>When you trying to improve efficency or handle DDOs, = there is no mechanism to be able to provide routing</li=0A= ><li><br/></li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Discussion after Shane: <ul><li>Russ White: It may sound like = we boiling the ocean. You need to be able to look at these use = cases to choose the right cup out of the ocean.</li=0A= ><li>Russ White: No. 2, Peter ter thought we were looking to replace. We = manage today to the exception. </li=0A= ><li>(missed section - tool lock out) </li=0A= ><li>Shane: I would </li=0A= ><li>Edward: The SNMP function is already there in many places.</li=0A= ><li>Shane: I think you should address the comment the author. You = can now log into the CLI and make some changes. I hope that you can = provide a bit better in the IRS. It is a gray area of policy.</li=0A= ><li>Edward Crabbe: with regard to interfaces to structured time series = datasource - seems quite broad. </li=0A= ><li>Shane: I am already using SNMP to collect data. What I want is a = data model that sits on top of the data warehouse, that can give me 95% = above utilization - then the IRS commissioner. </li=0A= ><li>Edward Crabbe: That is broad in scope. </li=0A= ><li>Shane: Some networks may not be as fancy as yours, and get to use = SQL: comment: this doesn't really have anything to do with = fancyness - what we seem to be talking about here is a statistical macro = language for performing all manner of *very common* basic operations = (means, quantiles, IQR, smoothing of various types etc) ... my = main concern here is that the set of potentiatl operations here is = sufficiently broad that it's not worth describing in a(nother) = standardized statistical macro language -edc</li=0A= ><li>Rudieger: Looking at the slides that Joel was showing shows ways to = get network elements and access network controls. When I hear Shane, I = hear multiple interactions. Is the system to give my customized = BGP usage. Or do we have more modest goals. </li=0A= ><li>Shane: This something for the WG to decide. This is a taxonomy of = the possible topics.</li=0A= ><li>Potential Charter (Ross Callon)<ul><li>(see slides) </li=0A= ><li>WG are best with limited defined charters, OK to do it = later. </li=0A= ><li>Issue - Fast path vs Slow path<ul><li>this is realtive</li=0A= ><li>we do not want to confuse implementatio verus = standards</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Which protocol - an existing or define a new one = protocol? <ul><li>WG needs to figure this out</li=0A= ><li>Initial charter - looks at use caes, not change. </li=0A= ><li>I doubt we will define a new protocol, we will use another.</li=0A= ><li>Only use cases</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Issue -Use cases<ul><li>Tightly scoped key use cases for = operational use of IRS. </li=0A= ><li>These use cases wil include at least: </li=0A= ><li>Does this preclude other use cases? </li=0A= ><li>No-- but we need to focus, focus, focus to make progress = (smile)</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>See charter for </li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Questions: <br/><br=0A= /></li></ul=0A= >Obvious Questions (Dave Ward)<br=0A= /><ul><li>How big the community working on IRS? <ul><li>408 = members</li=0A= ><li>11 drafts, lots of authors </li=0A= ><li>25% operators, 35% operators, 25% of academics,</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>What about my use Case? <ul><li>the number of use cases being = written up is greater than one, counting,</li=0A= ><li>Evaluation of use case is to be considered example not canonical = design,</li=0A= ><li>They are to make sure we have reasonable targets not the only = targets for the technology,</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>My encoding is the prettiest<ul><li>No it isn't </li=0A= ><li>none are perfect today,</li=0A= ><li>First we start with the data model, and encoding</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Recap: IRS and Prograammign<ul><li>IRS is a mechanism to learn = state from teh ntework</li=0A= ><li>(see slides) </li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>IRS Concerns - a long lsit</li=0A= ><li>Role of netconf & Yang<ul><li>Candidates for session and data = modeling</li=0A= ><li>Pros: (see slide) yang, modular, </li=0A= ><li>Gaps: operational state, state persistence, state ownership, HA = semantics, pluggable on-the-wire,</li=0A= ><li>Topology tools</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Current team investigating Netconf/yang applicability to = IRS<ul><li>Rex ferando (rex@cisco.com)</li=0A= ><li>Martin Bjorklund (mbg@tailf.co)</li=0A= ><li>Bruno Rijsman (Brijsman@juniper.net)</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li><br/></li=0A= ><li>Discussion on the Charter <ul><li>Lew Berger: This theobvious = comments and use cases that had lots of things in scope. We need = to be tighter.</li=0A= ><li>Ross: Is this before the working group, or after the working = list. </li=0A= ><li>Lew: I think it needs to be part of the chartering = activity. </li=0A= ><li>Margaret: I think that it not clear that there is a incoherent set = of work. </li=0A= ><li>Ross: This work will only be useful if there is one or more use = cases that the network operators is there. At the same time the usecase = needs to be small enough.</li=0A= ><li>Margaret: it is tricky because operators have many types of use = cases. Why would they want they want to have multiple = interfaces? </li=0A= ><li>Ross: Operators are behind you in the line. </li=0A= ><li>Rudiger Volk: I was suggest to come back with an answered = question. I will stay out of answering Margaret. This is = tools for interactions for pieces between of system wide = management. </li=0A= ><li>Dave: What I wrote was multiple signaling .... (missed)</li=0A= ><li>Rudiger: I write my system to write something to define my whole = network - that is outside the whole network. Something within the = manager for the interfaces.</li=0A= ><li>Dave: The goal is to have a better control of the logical topology = from a central control place. </li=0A= ><li>Rudiger: It is the tools for newly created manager.</li=0A= ><li>Jamal: Why did we talk about netconf/yang? </li=0A= ><li>Ross: It is not a requirement. </li=0A= ><li>Jamal: I can write about my favorite protocol.</li=0A= ><li>I____: The configuration protocols are slow path, and you </li=0A= ><li>Dave: The current slow path is "text" based script. </li=0A= ><li>___: I can do this with my system.</li=0A= ><li>Dave: Type make and see how much it impacts the system.</li=0A= ><li>___: Why don't you have a manager to yang = andnetconf. </li=0A= ><li>Dave: Even you have a agent that speaks a protocol and parsing. If = you want</li=0A= ><li>to put this in a routing network node?</li=0A= ><li>Behcet: Is IRS equivalent to SDN?</li=0A= ><li>DAve: Given SDN is everyting -- then it is SDN?</li=0A= ><li>Chris L. : What do we need to have on interfaceto go up? = (north bound api)</li=0A= ><li>Dave: Our first step was to determine </li=0A= ><li>Chris L: It would be a good test after we get the use case, to just = be targeted. </li=0A= ><li>Dave: We will use, abuse, and co-op.</li=0A= ><li>Shane: To respond, I'm not worried about rate of adoption. We are = not looking for ew protocols. To me as an operator, the most = difficult time consuming protocol to put in the network is new = forwarding protocols. It would be best to put new software on the = existing forwarding plane. Even if we forgot something we can rev the = software and put it out on the network. If the operators want to = make sure nothing gets left out. I'm here and I know there are = others.</li=0A= ><li>Dimitri: We were focusing on states and and information, and the = going functions that will suggest going point. </li=0A= ><li>Dave: We can include states or going function. </li=0A= ><li>Dimitri: It is clearly that we should have functions that are equip = by memory. We should put this in the charter. </li=0A= ><li>Brian: Simple observation: Slow path versus fast path. This = is not a gateway to the CLI. The CLI could be a commissioner in the = box.</li=0A= ><li>Brian: To address Margaret's concern, you might want to have = some element of the bgp control plane managed across the control = plane. </li=0A= ><li>Wes: You are trying to boil a body of water - you are looking a = body of water on another platform. Just managing the rib is sufficient. = Why can't this be segement? </li=0A= ><li>Rudiger Volk: Now I come to answering Margaret - the key issue is = the data modeling. <ul><li>Let me answer Margaret was that the SNMP = modeling was not convenient to be worked on. </li=0A= ><li>The work to get a unified model for SNMP has been long. The routing = models is too much. The modeling to do too much is handling. </li=0A= ><li>It might be a use case models to present data models. </li=0A= ><li>This whole network is more complex that the simple = element. </li=0A= ><li>It is dangerous to boil.</li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Dave: This is the charter is to focus on requirements, RIB, policy, = IRS. This not a receipe for boiling the ocean. </li=0A= ><li>Rudigier: For the consideration - is this too slow or too = fast? This is potential issue. But the too fast/too slow</li=0A= ><li>[note taker: The request for Rudigier in the model]</li=0A= ><li>PEter; What they need to in some of the use cases? </li=0A= ><li><br/></li=0A= ><li>Adrian: Bring it home. </li=0A= ><li>Dave:<ul><li>Who will work onit: 30+ in room (?) </li=0A= ><li>who thinks should working group: most in + in room </li=0A= ><li>not working group: 4-6 people </li=0A= ><li><br/></li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Adrian: <ul><li>I'm nervous that we need to nail the charter = to my use caes?</li=0A= ><li>Three question<ul><li>Do you want this set of documents to charter? = (5-10) </li=0A= ><li>Set of documents should be fewer? [not done] </li=0A= ><li>A wholly different: none: </li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= ></li></ul=0A= ></li=0A= ><li>Anyone ask about mutlicast? or IRS-TP? </li=0A= ><li>Dave: We'll built it but not at this standard body? </li=0A= ><li><br/></li=0A= ><li>Adrian: It calls the difference between an informational and data = model. People should look at RFC3444 - find the abstract work. Not = the encoding. </li=0A= ><li>Dave: Thank you, we do understand the informational model is what = you got scoped down to. </li=0A= ><li>Keerti- Will there be IRS mib? </li=0A= ><li>Dave: We'll take you to push this. </li=0A= ><li><br/></li=0A= ><li>Adrian: Talk and working on this on the mail list. Talk about on = the mai list. <br/><br=0A= /></li></ul=0A= >Discussion (all)<br=0A= /><br=0A= />Summary and Closure (chairs and AD)<br=0A= /><br=0A= /> <br=0A= /><br=0A= /></body>=0A= </html>=0A= ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CDBB8B.F25A12D0-- Return-Path: <shares@ndzh.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D742621F879C for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:57:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.534 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.534 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.428, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pk2XiTncJn8g for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:57:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (unknown [64.9.205.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C71C21F85CB for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:57:43 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=130.129.80.203; Received: from SKH2012HPLT (unverified [130.129.80.203]) by hickoryhill-consulting.com (SurgeMail 5.2a) with ESMTP id 63319-1945496 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 05 Nov 2012 18:57:42 -0500 From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com> To: <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:57:42 -0500 Message-ID: <003101cdbbb1$582ef3d0$088cdb70$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01CDBB87.6F5A7270" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac27sVQs/ZgJ+IdHTmu/bP3cMXM7eg== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Subject: [irs-discuss] etherpad spot to watch notes. . 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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01CDBB83.D130F950" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac27rTiKKrq36e5ATz2N7DXSu3wJKw== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Subject: [irs-discuss] etherpad crashed X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 23:31:50 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CDBB83.D130F950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://piratepad.net/3s3TVEW7vP 2ndary etherpad where I willduplicate notes. Sue ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CDBB83.D130F950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta = http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 = (filtered medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-compose; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><a = href=3D"http://piratepad.net/3s3TVEW7vP">http://piratepad.net/3s3TVEW7vP<= /a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>2ndary etherpad where I willduplicate = notes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Sue <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CDBB83.D130F950-- Return-Path: <shares@ndzh.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DBE221F8480 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:40:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.705 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.705 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.599, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iFYDap99Az4b for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (unknown [64.9.205.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B21621F8461 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:40:24 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=130.129.80.203; Received: from SKH2012HPLT (unverified [130.129.80.203]) by hickoryhill-consulting.com (SurgeMail 5.2a) with ESMTP id 63177-1945496 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 05 Nov 2012 17:40:23 -0500 From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com> To: <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:40:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000801cdbba6$8b0e2e20$a12a8a60$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01CDBB7C.A2393790" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac27poofwRTns8joSQ2kcJc64Z0kCw== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Subject: [irs-discuss] Etherpad notes for the IRS BOF X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 22:40:25 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CDBB7C.A2393790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://piratepad.net/AnZKlitP8F ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CDBB7C.A2393790 Content-Type: text/html; 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[130.129.100.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id se4sm11005290pbb.13.2012.11.05.11.43.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:43:10 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <liljenstolpe@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <00d901cdbb58$76572070$63056150$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:43:08 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5EEE5819-2A40-4FE7-AA39-D93F78E12B2A@gmail.com> References: <DF7F294AF4153D498141CBEFADB17704C7EC9FE484@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <282BBE8A501E1F4DA9C775F964BB21FE519702F264@GRFMBX704BA020.griffon.local> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <00d901cdbb58$76572070$63056150$@olddog.co.uk> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: 'Ross Callon' <rcallon@juniper.net>, 'Capello Alessandro' <alessandro.capello@telecomitalia.it>, 'Maglione Roberta' <roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it>, dward@cisco.com, irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:43:17 -0000 Greetings all, On 05Nov2012, at 05.21, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: <snip> > =20 > Hello, > I have a question on working item 2: > =20 > =93The working group is chartered to work on the following items: > =20 > 2. Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of IRS. = These use cases will include at least: > a. Interactions with the RIB > b. Association of routing policies with routing state > c. The ability to extract information about topology from the = network > =93 > Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use IRS to gather = information about network measurements such as available bandwidth on a = link, information related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ? <snip> However, I would want to test those use cases against existing = capabilities BEFORE adding more use cases. I'm not sure I'm in favor of = replicating work and capabilities already done elsewhere (i.e. bandwidth = available on a link, etc). Chris Return-Path: <rcallon@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD3C21F8673 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:36:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.293 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.293 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.173, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NKPXxEbKhQQU for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og110.obsmtp.com (exprod7og110.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.173]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39AE21F85AD for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:35:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob110.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUJgVEurj5nrkiwChvnBEGaOgqZnCxaif@postini.com; 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(null); H:CH1PRD0510HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -1 X-BigFish: PS-1(zzc85fh4015Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzzz2dh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12bdh137ah1441h1504h1537h153bh1155h) Received: from mail51-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail51-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1352144094662511_5791; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:34:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS012.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.248]) by mail51-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E8ADC80044; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:34:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0510HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.244.213) by CO1EHSMHS012.bigfish.com (10.243.66.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:34:53 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.125]) by CH1PRD0510HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.150.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:34:52 +0000 From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> To: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Volunteer needed as Jabber Scribe Thread-Index: Ac27jJ9SlKaCcH6NQoiI57o0xUHPuw== Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:34:51 +0000 Message-ID: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251F479@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251F479CH1PRD0510MB355_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%CISCO.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, "dward@cisco.com" <dward@cisco.com> Subject: [irs-discuss] Volunteer needed as Jabber Scribe X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:36:18 -0000 --_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251F479CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We would like a volunteer to be jabber scribe for this afternoon's IRS BOF.= Please let the chairs know if you are willing and able to do this. Thanks, Ross --_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251F479CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server"> <!-- converted from rtf --> <style><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; padding-left: 4pt; border-left:= #800000 2px solid; } --></style> </head> <body> <font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;"> <div>We would like a volunteer to be jabber scribe for this afternoon’= ;s IRS BOF. Please let the chairs know if you are willing and able to do th= is. </div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks, Ross</div> <div> </div> </span></font> </body> </html> --_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251F479CH1PRD0510MB355_-- Return-Path: <adrian@olddog.co.uk> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC0721F8514 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:21:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.64 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.64 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.462, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C2ZADG+pSk2J for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84DA21F84D1 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qA5DLRVk011456; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:21:27 GMT Received: from 950129200 (dhcp-13b5.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.19.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id qA5DLOax011401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:21:26 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: "'Ross Callon'" <rcallon@juniper.net>, "'Maglione Roberta'" <roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it>, <irs-discuss@ietf.org> References: <DF7F294AF4153D498141CBEFADB17704C7EC9FE484@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <282BBE8A501E1F4DA9C775F964BB21FE519702F264@GRFMBX704BA020.griffon.local> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:21:25 -0000 Message-ID: <00d901cdbb58$76572070$63056150$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DA_01CDBB58.765E4C60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIileaCQ9T6CSvo9QqWZnci+1k/xwHdf39+Ahbp7DmXEd/yAA== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: dward@cisco.com, 'Capello Alessandro' <alessandro.capello@telecomitalia.it> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:21:40 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01CDBB58.765E4C60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00DB_01CDBB58.765E4C60" ------=_NextPart_001_00DB_01CDBB58.765E4C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The intention of the draft charter is to seed the list of use cases. The charter that you all put forward to the IESG (if you have consensus = to form a WG) needs to have an agreed list of use cases that the WG will work = on. =20 IMHO, this needs to be a closed list for initial work, with a way to add = further use cases if needed. I also think that the list in the charter needs to = be a fairly short list, and that will require the group to determine where = its wants to focus. =20 A =20 From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Ross Callon Sent: 04 November 2012 18:43 To: Maglione Roberta; irs-discuss@ietf.org Cc: dward@cisco.com; Capello Alessandro Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter =20 The draft charter says =93at least=94. Thus in my reading of this, the = current proposed text does not preclude other use cases.=20 =20 On the other hand, I think that initially, after the WG is chartered and = starts operating as a WG (assuming that this happens), we need to be careful to = avoid trying to take on so much work that we don=92t succeed in finishing any = of it.=20 =20 Ross (speaking only as an interested individual, giving my personal opinion) =20 From: Maglione Roberta [mailto:roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM To: Ross Callon; irs-discuss@ietf.org Cc: dward@cisco.com; Capello Alessandro Subject: RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter =20 Hello,=20 I have a question on working item 2: =20 =93The working group is chartered to work on the following items: =20 2. Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of IRS. These = use cases will include at least: a. Interactions with the RIB b. Association of routing policies with routing state c. The ability to extract information about topology from the = network =93 Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use IRS to gather = information about network measurements such as available bandwidth on a link, information = related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ? =20 Thanks, Roberta=20 _____ =20 From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Ross Callon Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM To: irs-discuss@ietf.org Cc: Ross Callon; dward@cisco.com Subject: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter =20 Attached (in Word format) is a very rough initial draft charter (for a = potential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have been discussing with our friendly = sponsoring routing area AD.=20 =20 Comments are welcome. We will be discussing the draft IRS WG charter in = Atlanta. =20 Thanks, Ross (with input from Dave and Adrian) =20 =20 =20 Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle = persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora = abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua = distruzione, Grazie.=20 This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain = privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, = printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended = recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by = return e-mail, Thanks.=20 rispetta l'ambienteRispetta l'ambiente. 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mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} </style><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div = class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>The intention of the draft = charter is to seed the list of use cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>The charter that you all put = forward to the IESG (if you have consensus to form a WG) needs to have = an agreed list of use cases that the WG will work = on.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>IMHO, this needs to be a = closed list for initial work, with a way to add further use cases if = needed. I also think that the list in the charter needs to be a fairly = short list, and that will require the group to determine where its wants = to focus.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>A<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon= t-family:"Times New = Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF = 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f= ont-family:"Times New = Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f= ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> = irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On = Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon<br><b>Sent:</b> 04 November 2012 = 18:43<br><b>To:</b> Maglione Roberta; irs-discuss@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> = dward@cisco.com; Capello Alessandro<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] = Rough Draft IRS Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>The draft charter says “at = least”. Thus in my reading of this, the current proposed text does = not preclude other use cases. </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>On the other hand, I think that initially, = after the WG is chartered and starts operating as a WG (assuming that = this happens), we need to be careful to avoid trying to take on so much = work that we don’t succeed in finishing any of it. </span><span = lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Ross</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>(speaking only as an interested individual, = giving my personal opinion)</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div = style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang= uage:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang= uage:EN-US'> Maglione Roberta [mailto:roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it] = <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM<br><b>To:</b> Ross = Callon; irs-discuss@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> dward@cisco.com; Capello = Alessandro<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter</span><span = lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m= so-ansi-language:EN-US'>Hello, </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m= so-ansi-language:EN-US'> I have a question on working item = 2:</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m= so-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>“The working group is chartered to work on the = following items:</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3Dlistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 = lfo2;tab-stops:list 0cm'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria;mso-bidi-font-family:Cambria;mso= -ansi-language:EN-US'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> = </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'> Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of = IRS. These use cases will include at least:</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3Dlistparagraph = style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 = lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria;mso-bidi-font-family:Cambria;mso= -ansi-language:EN-US'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'> = </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>Interactions with the RIB</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3Dlistparagraph = style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 = lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria;mso-bidi-font-family:Cambria;mso= -ansi-language:EN-US'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> = </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>Association of routing policies with routing = state</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3Dlistparagraph = style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 = lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria;mso-bidi-font-family:Cambria;mso= -ansi-language:EN-US'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>c.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman"'> = </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>The ability to extract information about topology from the = network</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>“</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m= so-ansi-language:EN-US'>Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use = IRS to gather information about network measurements such as available = bandwidth on a link, information related to jitter delay for specific = flows etc. ?</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m= so-ansi-language:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m= so-ansi-language:EN-US'>Thanks,</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m= so-ansi-language:EN-US'>Roberta </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div = class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span = lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New = Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" = align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang= uage:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang= uage:EN-US'> <a = href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org= </a> [<a = href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@i= etf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, = October 18, 2012 5:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a = href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</= b> Ross Callon; <a = href=3D"mailto:dward@cisco.com">dward@cisco.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> = [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>Attached (in Word format) is a very rough initial draft = charter (for a potential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have been = discussing with our friendly sponsoring routing area AD. </span><span = lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>Comments are welcome. We will be discussing the draft IRS = WG charter in Atlanta. </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>Thanks, Ross</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'>(with input from Dave and Adrian)</span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan= guage:EN-US'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><table = class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D600 = style=3D'width:450.0pt;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-pa= dding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><tr = style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'><td = width=3D585 style=3D'width:438.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span = class=3Dmsonormal0><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>= Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle = persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione = derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente = vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete = cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di = provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. = </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p style=3D'text-align:justify'><span = class=3Dmsonormal0><i><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>= This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may = contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. = Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. = If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and = any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, = Thanks.</span></i></span><span class=3Dmsonormal0><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>= </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'text-align:justify'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>= <img border=3D0 width=3D26 height=3D40 id=3D"_x0000_i1026" = src=3D"cid:image001.gif@01CDBB58.5A236E40" alt=3D"rispetta = l'ambiente">Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 = necessario.</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>= </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div= ></body></html> ------=_NextPart_001_00DB_01CDBB58.765E4C60-- ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01CDBB58.765E4C60 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <image001.gif@01CDBB58.5A236E40> R0lGODlhGgAoANU5AEiFNnikNyRvNcvYOafCOEOEW3DO3jB2NqjGs9ny9o+zOIOrN+L1+G+ggbzo 8GCUN1SNNv///zx+NrPJOL/ROYPV44zY5YuzmrfQwCZxQlKNaMXZzOfy8NTi2TV6TuLs5vX8/ez5 +4yzmtTj2cXr8mCXdKni62ycN5/f6aDf6X2qjrPl7rLl7Zu6OJbb53nS4PH188bs8sXZzfH18pq9 p0SDWxhnNWbL3NfgOf///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAEAADkALAAAAAAaACgAAAb/wJxw SBQ6WMWkMmm6kZbQ5OvmjFoT1JuBYYWmsrcXqJvEgm8WctFypnI66pyjfXMhCmqGgR4r2S5dIBV0 FjI2h3BRX20VHAUCEjZ4UHNtFo42BA+HCEskbQYOIwU2CjgBNgAZM0kMbSYcIjYCBDg4LTYLf0V6 YCghNBk2DwO2OASZqkS9VBYMCB6pE8bGucidOYJUoaOptdQTFDg2ATgHGkIs2wyyAqbUtgICCwfl uh8ge1sNNhDF8LYiHYKAg4INBJUS8FsAEF6AA6lsHWjg4gYKDDZONGwIAIAtCAX2hPAgYSNHj6ds 3KiA8V3DAQGm2epoS4HKFQ0EmMRhc97Mwge2kN1IoIGgyQECD5wQUO6YygTkdtpCdSgqDl0VoDaV OmDBpm+oTCQoABQgBZfGbIrDAUBDAgcNDnDs98/WA504Buxa0RKgzVkB/h0oi+pDjgQhHtU1RgDi oY6l8gpAJyTBCBsSFtuC6XjWTBuJhIRAgFkmwAmoAkM4mCQCBmEB1sIDIKAFRGytYfDrt4CAuAkn qnrYYCXCBxGkqlYtgbtLhOcbMNSw0SBOEmg2VFj/sGHDhRLCNBC3fqFqARWhowQBADs= ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01CDBB58.765E4C60-- Return-Path: <christopher.liljenstolpe@bigswitch.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264F921F89F9 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 20:16:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9FGWuYVwchqg for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 20:16:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ye0-f172.google.com (mail-ye0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97FA921F89F2 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 20:16:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ye0-f172.google.com with SMTP id l13so972226yen.31 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:16:32 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date :to:mime-version:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=X0aDnilvayjLCh9Nbl9hTNYOb9rf2J4rRUJCMWUZp24=; b=CAnAfrwM16XwR8tfmYC36Ze6kIEgzz6lEWL6biMG/xE2sxQ0Z6rQzs8hNt8uWY/D8A lavWniF2E7qX41fREqGp78ywNxfdXCSlQYiRsoXL18bYFZXBCI/aOQ68srCBMBnJ4dJY vYIQrVEknbj5NgOL04dwPbX8kF97zTnLyJs7sF+Ftnm9L0WqqxXvfH6qpZlj2W3bYrb6 zowGohYe39SR8qOVFcxhhamHWdgfhXpB1wc6jdKWxiLG9YoT+A24iFwXxI11veoq/Fzj NgsRWzGHAI6dg23uDqbpGGZTSeMmOo0xVi2wHIrNBN8nI2+qtx0/uyn/7oweg/8L29zS hRtg== Received: by 10.236.71.33 with SMTP id q21mr8033452yhd.60.1352088992171; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:16:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.179] (50-79-130-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.79.130.217]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g2sm16662740yhj.9.2012.11.04.20.16.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:16:31 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Liljenstolpe <christopher.liljenstolpe@bigswitch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4A7A7908-F3C8-4D94-B9A2-FE8A82590490@bigswitch.com> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 20:16:29 -0800 To: irs-discuss@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk1hyz0TcVEu9TIf0fu7dUR+Kt4wdZwgjZLUkgVsz4mirw1QxCvKJrDJRpG1Z9MicS3DLe2 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 04:52:48 -0800 Subject: [irs-discuss] Comment about the draft charter X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 04:16:33 -0000 Greetings all, Overall I like the charter. I do have one suggestion: I think we should (in point (2)) subject other proposed use-cases to a = test against existing solutions (at least within the IETF if not ex-IETF = as well) to insure we don't chase a use-case that turns out to duplicate = existing work somewhere else. =09 That's about it that I would change Christopher Return-Path: <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF53C21F85DF for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:55:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WbkvSv9W+CzX for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6822321F8604 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.79.162.178] (mobile-198-228-204-137.mycingular.net [198.228.204.137]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FA1230C63F; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:54:43 -0500 (EST) References: <DF7F294AF4153D498141CBEFADB17704C7EC9FE484@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <282BBE8A501E1F4DA9C775F964BB21FE519702F264@GRFMBX704BA020.griffon.local> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-BC0EA3DD-255D-45B0-9DD2-906024C35A63 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <69B5AE7C-5F7F-4E17-A6BC-28BD3E01A7C3@lucidvision.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10A523) From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:54:39 -0500 To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> Cc: Capello Alessandro <alessandro.capello@telecomitalia.it>, Maglione Roberta <roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it>, "dward@cisco.com" <dward@cisco.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:55:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail-BC0EA3DD-255D-45B0-9DD2-906024C35A63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Nov 4, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> wrote: > The draft charter says =E2=80=9Cat least=E2=80=9D. Thus in my reading of t= his, the current proposed text does not preclude other use cases. agreed. I think that was the spirit of hat was proposed. > =20 > On the other hand, I think that initially, after the WG is chartered and s= tarts operating as a WG (assuming that this happens), we need to be careful t= o avoid trying to take on so much work that we don=E2=80=99t succeed in fini= shing any of it. agreed. Tom=20 > =20 > Ross > (speaking only as an interested individual, giving my personal opinion) > =20 > From: Maglione Roberta [mailto:roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it]=20 > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM > To: Ross Callon; irs-discuss@ietf.org > Cc: dward@cisco.com; Capello Alessandro > Subject: RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter > =20 > Hello, > I have a question on working item 2: > =20 > =E2=80=9CThe working group is chartered to work on the following items: > =20 > 2. Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of IRS. These use c= ases will include at least: > a. Interactions with the RIB > b. Association of routing policies with routing state > c. The ability to extract information about topology from the network > =E2=80=9C > Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use IRS to gather information a= bout network measurements such as available bandwidth on a link, information= related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ? > =20 > Thanks, > Roberta > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] O= n Behalf Of Ross Callon > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM > To: irs-discuss@ietf.org > Cc: Ross Callon; dward@cisco.com > Subject: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter > =20 > Attached (in Word format) is a very rough initial draft charter (for a pot= ential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have been discussing with our friendly sp= onsoring routing area AD. > =20 > Comments are welcome. We will be discussing the draft IRS WG charter in At= lanta. > =20 > Thanks, Ross > (with input from Dave and Adrian) > =20 > =20 > =20 > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pe= rsone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbi= ate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne= immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, G= razie. > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged= information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended re= cipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sende= r by return e-mail, Thanks. >=20 > <image001.gif>Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 n= ecessario. > =20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss --Apple-Mail-BC0EA3DD-255D-45B0-9DD2-906024C35A63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D= utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br>On Nov 4, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Ro= ss Callon <<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@juniper.net">rcallon@juniper.net</a>= > wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1= "> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} p.emailquote, li.emailquote, div.emailquote {mso-style-name:emailquote; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:1.0pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.listparagraph, li.listparagraph, div.listparagraph {mso-style-name:listparagraph; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Cambria","serif";} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:blue; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none none;} span.msonormal0 {mso-style-name:msonormal;} span.EmailStyle22 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.BalloonTextChar {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:70.85pt 56.7pt 56.7pt 56.7pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:188836904; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:-1905122362 1173243028 134807577 134807579 13= 4807567 134807577 134807579 134807567 134807577 134807579;} @list l0:level1 {mso-level-start-at:2; mso-level-tab-stop:0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @list l0:level2 {mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower; mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @list l0:level3 {mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level4 {mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level5 {mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level6 {mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level7 {mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level8 {mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level9 {mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The draft charter says =E2=80= =9Cat least=E2=80=9D. Thus in my reading of this, the current proposed text d= oes not preclude other use cases. </span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>agreed. I think that= was the spirit of hat was proposed.</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div= ><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size= :11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D= "><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On the other hand, I think t= hat initially, after the WG is chartered and starts operating as a WG (assum= ing that this happens), we need to be careful to avoid trying to take on so much work that we don=E2=80=99t succeed in finishing a= ny of it. <o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>agreed.<div><br></d= iv><div>Tom </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D= "WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(speaking only as an intere= sted individual, giving my personal opinion)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p= > <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0= in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Maglione Ro= berta [<a href=3D"mailto:roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it">mailto:roberta.m= aglione@telecomitalia.it</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@= ietf.org</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dward@cisco.com">dward@cisco.com</a>; Capello A= lessandro<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif";color:blue">Hello, <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif";color:blue"> I have a question on wor= king item 2:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif";color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif"">=E2=80=9CThe working group is chartered t= o work on the following items:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lf= o2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu= ot;Verdana","sans-serif""><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<= span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami= ly:"Verdana","sans-serif""> Tightly scoped key use c= ases for operational use of IRS. These use cases will include at least:<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso= -list:l0 level2 lfo2"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"V= erdana","sans-serif""><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a.<span= style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami= ly:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Interactions with the RIB<o:p= ></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso= -list:l0 level2 lfo2"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"V= erdana","sans-serif""><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span= style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami= ly:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Association of routing polici= es with routing state<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso= -list:l0 level2 lfo2"> <!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"V= erdana","sans-serif""><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">c.<span= style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami= ly:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The ability to extract inform= ation about topology from the network<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif"">=E2=80=9C<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif";color:blue">Does this bullet exclude the p= ossibility to use IRS to gather information about network measurements such a= s available bandwidth on a link, information related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif";color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif";color:blue">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif";color:blue">Roberta <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-siz= e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org= </a> [<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:irs-discuss-bou= nces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a><= br> <b>Cc:</b> Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:dward@cisco.com">dward@cisco.com</= a><br> <b>Subject:</b> [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif"">Attached (in Word format) is a very rough= initial draft charter (for a potential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have bee= n discussing with our friendly sponsoring routing area AD. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif"">Comments are welcome. We will be discussi= ng the draft IRS WG charter in Atlanta. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif"">Thanks, Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif"">(with input from Dave and Adrian)<o:p></o= :p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cal= ibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"600"= style=3D"width:6.25in"> <tbody> <tr> <td width=3D"585" style=3D"width:438.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"msonormal= 0"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans= -serif";color:black">Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzat= i esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni s= ono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per err= ore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e= di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. </span></span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verd= ana","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"= EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-s= erif";color:black">This e-mail and any attachments</span></i></span><sp= an class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;fon= t-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"> is&nb= sp;</span></i></span><span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl= e=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";= color:black">confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. D= issemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If y= ou are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attach= ments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.</span></i></span><span class=3D"msonormal0"><span= lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",&qu= ot;sans-serif";color:black"> </span></span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana"= ,"sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black= "><image001.gif>Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario.</span></b><s= pan style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-seri= f";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________= ___________________________</span><br><span>irs-discuss mailing list</span><= br><span><a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a></s= pan><br><span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss">= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a></span><br></div></bloc= kquote></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-BC0EA3DD-255D-45B0-9DD2-906024C35A63-- Return-Path: <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED2721F8473 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:53:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id do7Qvnvel5vN for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8824C21F846D for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.79.162.178] (mobile-198-228-204-137.mycingular.net [198.228.204.137]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA67E230C628; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:53:17 -0500 (EST) References: <DF7F294AF4153D498141CBEFADB17704C7EC9FE484@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <5085874F.1090806@riw.us> <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251A9F9@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251A9F9@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <BA7E86E9-93DA-4647-80EE-1347B53C3F31@lucidvision.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10A523) From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:53:13 -0500 To: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> Cc: Russ White <russw@riw.us>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:53:20 -0000 On Nov 4, 2012, at 1:40 PM, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> wrote: > Speaking only for myself as an individual:=20 >=20 > I agree that this paragraph of the draft WG charter is a problem. For one t= hing the definition of "Slow Path" and "Fast Path" are not clear, and overla= p with implementation issues as well as other issues.=20 >=20 > One option would be to just drop this paragraph. To me the charter hangs t= ogether fine without it.=20 I personally do not find it offensive, but if it clears things up, let's loo= se it. >=20 > One alternative: Do we want to say something along the lines of "whatever s= olutions are selected by the WG will not preclude "fast path" low-overhead a= ccess to the routing system"? This would encourage the WG to think about wha= t is needed to allow low-overhead access to data in the routers (both settin= g and reading), but would not in the charter specify what actually needs to b= e done to allow this.=20 I don't like the language of "will not preclude". it's a bit of a double ne= gative to me. something like "will seek to reuse or develop a protocol that a= chieves the requirements of low-overhead, etc... seems more flexible and pr= ecise to me at the same time. Tom=20 >=20 > Ross >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] O= n Behalf Of Russ White > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 1:50 PM > To: irs-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter >=20 >=20 > I think this has already been brought up on the list once before, but > I'd just like to repeat my concerns on it: >=20 > =3D=3D > Thus, the IRS is a "fast path" that can be used to program routing and > policy state in a router using operational paradigms familiar to > operators of traditional distributed devices. This differs from the > programmatic "slow state" that is commonly a device's configuration > interface because those mechanisms impose many transactional mechanisms > and requirements, that may slow down the interaction. > =3D=3D >=20 > Describing the CLI or other existing interfaces as the "slow path," and > the proposed as the "fast path," is problematic. First, it implies that > there is a specific path already available into all control plane > devices, and that single path is "too slow," for some meaning of "too > slow." Second, it implies, from the start, that we need new path, rather > than a possible structure around existing paths that we can use to make > sense of the routing system as a whole. >=20 > I think 2a needs to be better defined so it doesn't overlap with 2c, or > 2c needs to be made a part of 2a in some way (?). >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Russ >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > <>< > riwhite@verisign.com > russw@riw.us > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >=20 Return-Path: <rcallon@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC4221F84CD for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.256 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.256 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.210, BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bW4bJtvB+9WV for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:43:17 +0000 Received: from mail182-va3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail182-va3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A3B200E5 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:43:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.244.213; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:CH1PRD0510HT001.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -23 X-BigFish: PS-23(zz9371Ic89bhc85dh1418I4015Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2dh54h2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12bdh137ah1441h1504h1537h153bh1155h) Received: from mail182-va3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail182-va3 (MessageSwitch) id 1352054594813944_17459; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:43:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from VA3EHSMHS014.bigfish.com (unknown [10.7.14.240]) by mail182-va3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C237FA005F; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:43:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0510HT001.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.244.213) by VA3EHSMHS014.bigfish.com (10.7.99.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:43:14 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.125]) by CH1PRD0510HT001.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.150.36]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:43:13 +0000 From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> To: Maglione Roberta <roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Rough Draft IRS Charter Thread-Index: Ac2tSPIygvX3jYqNR5qAr0uNe7mBvAArX2tQAzFayuA= Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:43:11 +0000 Message-ID: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <DF7F294AF4153D498141CBEFADB17704C7EC9FE484@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <282BBE8A501E1F4DA9C775F964BB21FE519702F264@GRFMBX704BA020.griffon.local> In-Reply-To: <282BBE8A501E1F4DA9C775F964BB21FE519702F264@GRFMBX704BA020.griffon.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11CH1PRD0510MB355_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%TELECOMITALIA.IT$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%CISCO.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: "dward@cisco.com" <dward@cisco.com>, Capello Alessandro <alessandro.capello@telecomitalia.it> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:43:32 -0000 --_004_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11CH1PRD0510MB355_" --_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The draft charter says "at least". Thus in my reading of this, the current = proposed text does not preclude other use cases. On the other hand, I think that initially, after the WG is chartered and st= arts operating as a WG (assuming that this happens), we need to be careful = to avoid trying to take on so much work that we don't succeed in finishing = any of it. Ross (speaking only as an interested individual, giving my personal opinion) From: Maglione Roberta [mailto:roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM To: Ross Callon; irs-discuss@ietf.org Cc: dward@cisco.com; Capello Alessandro Subject: RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter Hello, I have a question on working item 2: "The working group is chartered to work on the following items: 2. Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of IRS. These use c= ases will include at least: a. Interactions with the RIB b. Association of routing policies with routing state c. The ability to extract information about topology from the network " Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use IRS to gather information a= bout network measurements such as available bandwidth on a link, informatio= n related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ? Thanks, Roberta ________________________________ From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> [ma= ilto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ross Callon Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM To: irs-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> Cc: Ross Callon; dward@cisco.com<mailto:dward@cisco.com> Subject: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter Attached (in Word format) is a very rough initial draft charter (for a pote= ntial IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have been discussing with our friendly sp= onsoring routing area AD. Comments are welcome. We will be discussing the draft IRS WG charter in Atl= anta. Thanks, Ross (with input from Dave and Adrian) Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. [rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non = =E8 necessario. --_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251AA11CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style><![endif]--><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} p.emailquote, li.emailquote, div.emailquote {mso-style-name:emailquote; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:1.0pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} p.listparagraph, li.listparagraph, div.listparagraph {mso-style-name:listparagraph; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Cambria","serif";} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:blue; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none none;} span.msonormal0 {mso-style-name:msonormal;} span.EmailStyle22 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.BalloonTextChar {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:70.85pt 56.7pt 56.7pt 56.7pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:188836904; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:-1905122362 1173243028 134807577 134807579 134807567= 134807577 134807579 134807567 134807577 134807579;} @list l0:level1 {mso-level-start-at:2; mso-level-tab-stop:0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @list l0:level2 {mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower; mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @list l0:level3 {mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level4 {mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level5 {mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level6 {mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level7 {mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level8 {mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} @list l0:level9 {mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The draft charter says &#= 8220;at least”. Thus in my reading of this, the current proposed text= does not preclude other use cases. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On the other hand, I thin= k that initially, after the WG is chartered and starts operating as a WG (a= ssuming that this happens), we need to be careful to avoid trying to take on so much work that we don’t succeed in finishing an= y of it. <o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(speaking only as an inte= rested individual, giving my personal opinion)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><= /p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Maglione= Roberta [mailto:roberta.maglione@telecomitalia.it] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Ross Callon; irs-discuss@ietf.org<br> <b>Cc:</b> dward@cisco.com; Capello Alessandro<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif";color:blue">Hello, <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif";color:blue"> I have a question on w= orking item 2:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif";color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif"">“The working group is chartered t= o work on the following items:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 l= fo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Verdana","sans-serif""><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<s= pan style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:= "Verdana","sans-serif""> Tightly scoped key use ca= ses for operational use of IRS. These use cases will include at least:<o:p>= </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;ms= o-list:l0 level2 lfo2"> <![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verd= ana","sans-serif""><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a.<span s= tyle=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:= "Verdana","sans-serif"">Interactions with the RIB<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;ms= o-list:l0 level2 lfo2"> <![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verd= ana","sans-serif""><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span s= tyle=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:= "Verdana","sans-serif"">Association of routing policies= with routing state<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;ms= o-list:l0 level2 lfo2"> <![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verd= ana","sans-serif""><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">c.<span s= tyle=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:= "Verdana","sans-serif"">The ability to extract informat= ion about topology from the network<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif"">“<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif";color:blue">Does this bullet exclude the= possibility to use IRS to gather information about network measurements su= ch as available bandwidth on a link, information related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif";color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif";color:blue">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ve= rdana","sans-serif";color:blue">Roberta <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.or= g</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:irs-discuss-b= ounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org">irs-discuss@ietf.org</a>= <br> <b>Cc:</b> Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:dward@cisco.com">dward@cisco.com<= /a><br> <b>Subject:</b> [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"">Attached (in Word format) is a very rou= gh initial draft charter (for a potential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have = been discussing with our friendly sponsoring routing area AD. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"">Comments are welcome. We will be discus= sing the draft IRS WG charter in Atlanta. <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"">Thanks, Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif"">(with input from Dave and Adrian)<o:p><= /o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"600= " style=3D"width:6.25in"> <tbody> <tr> <td width=3D"585" style=3D"width:438.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"msonorma= l0"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sa= ns-serif";color:black">Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indiriz= zati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni= sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per = errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mitte= nte e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. </span></span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Ver= dana","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D= "EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans= -serif";color:black">This e-mail and any attachments</span></i></span>= <span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt= ;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"> = is </span></i></span><span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB= " style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif= ";color:black">confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only.= Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. 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Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:40:23 -0800 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:40:22 -0800 Received: from CO9EHSOBE004.bigfish.com (207.46.163.28) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:43:06 -0800 Received: from mail78-co9-R.bigfish.com (10.236.132.243) by CO9EHSOBE004.bigfish.com (10.236.130.67) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:40:22 +0000 Received: from mail78-co9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail78-co9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DBDEA00A8 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:40:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.244.213; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:CH1PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -29 X-BigFish: PS-29(zz9371I103dK542Md799hzz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh1155h) Received: from mail78-co9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail78-co9 (MessageSwitch) id 135205442136888_20942; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:40:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO9EHSMHS002.bigfish.com (unknown [10.236.132.253]) by mail78-co9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19802E0049; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:40:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.244.213) by CO9EHSMHS002.bigfish.com (10.236.130.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:40:20 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.125]) by CH1PRD0510HT004.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.150.39]) with mapi id 14.16.0233.002; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:40:20 +0000 From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> To: Russ White <russw@riw.us>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter Thread-Index: Ac2tSPIygvX3jYqNR5qAr0uNe7mBvADNLoCAAo9gxVA= Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:40:19 +0000 Message-ID: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251A9F9@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <DF7F294AF4153D498141CBEFADB17704C7EC9FE484@EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net> <5085874F.1090806@riw.us> In-Reply-To: <5085874F.1090806@riw.us> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%RIW.US$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:40:33 -0000 Speaking only for myself as an individual:=20 I agree that this paragraph of the draft WG charter is a problem. For one t= hing the definition of "Slow Path" and "Fast Path" are not clear, and overl= ap with implementation issues as well as other issues.=20 One option would be to just drop this paragraph. To me the charter hangs to= gether fine without it.=20 One alternative: Do we want to say something along the lines of "whatever s= olutions are selected by the WG will not preclude "fast path" low-overhead = access to the routing system"? This would encourage the WG to think about w= hat is needed to allow low-overhead access to data in the routers (both set= ting and reading), but would not in the charter specify what actually needs= to be done to allow this.=20 Ross -----Original Message----- From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Russ White Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 1:50 PM To: irs-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter I think this has already been brought up on the list once before, but I'd just like to repeat my concerns on it: =3D=3D Thus, the IRS is a "fast path" that can be used to program routing and policy state in a router using operational paradigms familiar to operators of traditional distributed devices. This differs from the programmatic "slow state" that is commonly a device's configuration interface because those mechanisms impose many transactional mechanisms and requirements, that may slow down the interaction. =3D=3D Describing the CLI or other existing interfaces as the "slow path," and the proposed as the "fast path," is problematic. First, it implies that there is a specific path already available into all control plane devices, and that single path is "too slow," for some meaning of "too slow." Second, it implies, from the start, that we need new path, rather than a possible structure around existing paths that we can use to make sense of the routing system as a whole. I think 2a needs to be better defined so it doesn't overlap with 2c, or 2c needs to be made a part of 2a in some way (?). Thanks! Russ --=20 <>< riwhite@verisign.com russw@riw.us _______________________________________________ irs-discuss mailing list irs-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss Return-Path: <rcallon@juniper.net> X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F0B1F0C69 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:18:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.466 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.466 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ems7lnST3Mbg for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og115.obsmtp.com (exprod7og115.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.217]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6CF81F0C60 for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; 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Fri, 2 Nov 2012 18:15:57 +0000 From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> To: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Draft IRS BOF Agenda Thread-Index: Ac25JhnbaH6xIfXsQ5q9ZE+vFQ2KQw== Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 18:15:57 +0000 Message-ID: <62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590CH1PRD0510MB355_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Subject: [irs-discuss] Draft IRS BOF Agenda X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss> List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:18:05 -0000 --_004_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590CH1PRD0510MB355_" --_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just updated a draft agenda for the IRS BOF to the WG chairs page. A copy= is attached (in text format). This is an update to what had been posted a = few days ago. Thanks, Ross --_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server"> <!-- converted from rtf --> <style><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; padding-left: 4pt; border-left:= #800000 2px solid; } --></style> </head> <body> <font face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;"> <div>I just updated a draft agenda for the IRS BOF to the WG chairs page. A= copy is attached (in text format). This is an update to what had been post= ed a few days ago. </div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks, Ross</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> </span></font> </body> </html> --_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590CH1PRD0510MB355_-- --_004_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590CH1PRD0510MB355_ Content-Type: text/plain; name="IRSagenda85 update1.txt" Content-Description: IRSagenda85 update1.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="IRSagenda85 update1.txt"; size=841; creation-date="Thu, 01 Nov 2012 19:09:32 GMT"; modification-date="Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:50:33 GMT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RHJhZnQgQWdlbmRhIGZvciB0aGUgSVJTIEJPRiBhdCBJRVRGIDg1DQpNb25kYXkgTm92ZW1iZXIg NSwgMjAxMg0KMTc0MC0xOTQwICBBZnRlcm5vb24gU2Vzc2lvbiBJSUksIFNhbG9uIEQNCg0KDQpB Z2VuZGEtYmFzaGluZyBhbmQgYWRtaW5pc3RyaXZpYSAoY2hhaXJzKSANCg0KU2NvcGUgYW5kIHB1 cnBvc2Ugb2YgQm9GIChBZHJpYW4gRmFycmVsKSANCg0KT3ZlcnZpZXcgb2YgUHJvYmxlbSBTdGF0 ZW1lbnQgYW5kIEZyYW1ld29yayAoU3VlIEhhcmVzKQ0KDQpPdmVydmlldyBvZiBVc2UgQ2FzZXMg YW5kIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyAoU2hhbmUgQW1hbnRlKQ0KDQpQb3RlbnRpYWwgQ2hhcnRlciAoUm9z cyBDYWxsb24pDQoNCk9idmlvdXMgUXVlc3Rpb25zIChEYXZlIFdhcmQpDQoNCkRpc2N1c3Npb24g KGFsbCkNCg0KU3VtbWFyeSBhbmQgQ2xvc3VyZSAoY2hhaXJzIGFuZCBBRCkNCg0KDQoNClJlbGF0 ZWQgSW50ZXJuZXQgRHJhZnRzOg0KDQpkcmFmdC1hbWFudGUtaXJzLXRvcG9sb2d5LXVzZS1jYXNl cy0wMA0KZHJhZnQtYXRsYXMtaXJzLXBvbGljeS1mcmFtZXdvcmstMDANCmRyYWZ0LWF0bGFzLWly cy1wcm9ibGVtLXN0YXRlbWVudC0wMA0KZHJhZnQtZGltaXRyaS1pcnMtYXJjaC1mcmFtZS0wMA0K ZHJhZnQtaGFyZXMtdXNlLWNhc2Utdm4tdmMtMDANCmRyYWZ0LWtleXVwYXRlLWlycy1iZ3AtdXNl Y2FzZXMtMDANCmRyYWZ0LW1lZHZlZC1pcnMtdG9wb2xvZ3ktcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzLTAwDQpkcmFm dC1yZmVybmFuZG8taXJzLWZyYW1ld29yay1yZXF1aXJlbWVudC0wMA0KZHJhZnQtd2FyZC1pcnMt ZnJhbWV3b3JrLTAwDQpkcmFmdC13aGl0ZS1pcnMtdXNlLWNhc2UtMDANCg== --_004_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD3024FB590CH1PRD0510MB355_--
- [i2rs] What to do with draft names Adrian Farrel