Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Sun, 21 October 2018 16:11 UTC
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:11:41 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Scott Bradner <sob@sobco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt
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Bob, I don't think Scott suggested a consolidated update to all of these documents. Having started this thread, I certainly didn't. If there is a substantive reason to rework a document, by all means do that... especially if the scope of the original document is very narrow. However, if the only change that is required to a given document simple substitution, especially in one place and especially if the document has very broad scope, let's try to find a way to do a narrow update rather than replacing/obsoleting the document. Like Scott, I hope that could be done by a single document that draws all of the trivial updates together. But, if it cannot, I believe we would be far better off with, using 2418 as an example, with a one (substantive)-paragraph RFC changing the job title rather than issuing a new, supposedly-complete, document and obsoleting the original one. That also minimizes the risk of unintended consequences. Or, while I had forgotten until Rich's note caused me to review the history of 2418, for these trivial cases, we could simply follow the POISSON/RFC Editor precedent, treat the change of title as a simple editorial matter, record it in an erratum identified as "save for revision", and move on. If one wants to minimize the amount of community effort spent per unit improvement, the latter is almost certainly the right option for those simple cases. best, john --On Sunday, October 21, 2018 08:39 -0700 Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> wrote: > Scott, > >> On Oct 20, 2018, at 3:45 PM, Scott O. Bradner <sob@sobco.com> >> wrote: >> >> sure seems a lot more efficient to just have one short RFC >> instead of a bunch of RFCs that wind up changing well known >> RFC #s for almost no meaningful changes - i > > I think it depends on the document. While there are some > that could be handled this way, others are more complicated. > For example, Jason and I are working on RFC7437bis " IAB,IESG, > and IETF LLC Selection, Confirmation, and Recall Process: > Operation of the IETF Nominating and Recall Committees". > That's gotten more complicated because the IETF Trust > Trustees and LLC Directors are being (partially) selected by > the NomCom under the IASA2.0 work. The changes are not, for > example, s/IAOC/LLC/. There are other changes that make sense > like having the chairs communicate direclty with the NomCom > instead it going through the IETF Executive Director (now > called Managing Director, IETF Secretariat). Now starting to > look at bringing in the Ombudsman changes from RFC7776. > > I suspect we are going to have the new ISAS 2 model for a > while, good to get this right where it matters. > > Bob > >> >> (never mind having to change training documents to point to >> the changed RFC numbers) >> >> Scott >> >>> On Oct 20, 2018, at 5:27 PM, John C Klensin >>> <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> --On Sunday, October 21, 2018 10:07 +1300 Brian E Carpenter >>> <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> fwiw I agree. There is no reference to IASA in 2418, for >>>> obvious reasons. >>>> >>>> From a practical point of view, any terminology issue could >>>> be handled >>>> as an erratum with disposition "wait for update". >>> >>> That, IMO, would be an even better solution than creating an >>> updating document that says "any time earlier documents say >>> 'IETF Executive Director' replace it with..." and similar >>> things and then hunting down the relevant documents and >>> marking them as updated. >>> >>> Depending on how compulsive the WG and relevant AD are >>> feeling, I think either would work. But we really have >>> better ways to spend our time than replacing a process >>> document to change a title... or at least I hope we do. >>> >>> Frankly, the only good reason I can see for generating all of >>> these IASA2 documents just to change terminology is to create >>> enough noise that the community doesn't notice and pay >>> attention to changes that actually might be controversial. >>> I trust and assume that is not the intent of anyone involved. >>> >>> john >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> iasa20 mailing list >> iasa20@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20 >
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt John C Klensin
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt John C Klensin
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Scott O. Bradner
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Salz, Rich
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Bob Hinden
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt John C Klensin
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt John C Klensin
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Scott Bradner
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Scott Bradner
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt John C Klensin
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt John C Klensin
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Brian E Carpenter
- [Iasa20] fundamental brokenness of iasa2 updates … Scott Bradner
- Re: [Iasa20] fundamental brokenness of iasa2 upda… Scott Bradner
- Re: [Iasa20] fundamental brokenness of iasa2 upda… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Iasa20] fundamental brokenness of iasa2 upda… Scott Bradner
- Re: [Iasa20] fundamental brokenness of iasa2 upda… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Iasa20] fundamental brokenness of iasa2 upda… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: [Iasa20] fundamental brokenness of iasa2 upda… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Iasa20] draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc2418bis-01.txt Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Iasa20] fundamental brokenness of iasa2 upda… Bob Hinden