Re: [icnrg] Review and update of draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines

["David Oran" <[e-mail]>]

On 24 Nov 2017, at 3:47, Rahman, Akbar wrote:

> Dear Giovanna,
>
>
> Thank you for your valuable input.  We had been working closely with 
> your colleague, Prakash, for the last update but obviously perhaps the 
> text related to Hybrid ICN needs further clarification.  I will work 
> on clarifying according to your comments.
>
> I also recently received separate off line comments from Hitoshi 
> Asaeda on CUTEi and ICN2020 which I also need to address.
>
> I will wait for the Chairs guidance on whether we should do this 
> update before or after the WG adoption goes out on the mailing list as 
> we discussed in Singapore.
>
don’t wait to work on the draft.

>
> Akbar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: icnrg [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Giovanna 
> Carofiglio (gcarofig)
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:06 AM
> To: Rahman, Akbar <[e-mail]>; Suthar, Prakash 
> <[e-mail]>; icnrg <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Börje Ohlman <[e-mail]>; Oran, Dave 
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: [icnrg] Review and update of 
> draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines
>
> Dear Akbar and co-authors of "draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment 
> guidelines",
>
> I have reviewed the paragraphs describing Hybrid ICN and found them 
> not representative of the solution we at Cisco have developed. Here 
> the main points that should be revised:
>
> - Hybrid ICN does NOT deploy ICN as an overlay, it is rather what by 
> design have decided not to do, btw for the reasons mentioned at the 
> end of that section. Hybrid ICN aims at integrating ICN inside IP, 
> using RFC standard IP packets and guaranteeing transparent 
> interconnection of Hybrid ICN and IP routers (as described in the 
> white paper in the references).
>
> - As a consequence of my previous note, Hybrid ICN does NOT result in 
> islands of ICN deployments over existing IP-based infrastructure. No 
> tunnels are established and IP routers are transparently traversed 
> with normal IP forwarding performed.
>
> -  Hybrid ICN does NOT require  interoperability between existing IP 
> routing protocols (e.g.  OSPF, RIP, ISIS) and ICN based ones, as 
> incorrectly stated in the document.
>
> - Also, Hybrid ICN does not use the CCN protocol (CICN and Hybrid ICN 
> are two different solutions).
>
> We hope to be able to attend next ICNRG meetings where to contribute 
> more details on Hybrid ICN. In the meantime, please feel free to reach 
> out to me, or to Luca Muscariello ([e-mail]) to revise 
> Hybrid ICN description.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Best Regards,
> Giovanna
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: icnrg <[e-mail]> on behalf of Rahman, Akbar 
> <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 7:53 PM
> To: Prakash Suthar (psuthar); icnrg
> Cc: Börje Ohlman; Oran, Dave
> Subject: [icnrg] Review and update of 
> draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines
>
> Hi Prakash & Chairs,
>
>
> We have updated our draft to address the comments from Prakish and 
> some of his other colleagues at Cisco (who gave us some more off-line 
> comments):
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-04
>
>
> Here is the specific list of changes we made:
>
> 1.      Clarified that ICN can be run on many types of networks 
> (access, transport, edge processing, CDN, core, data center, etc.) 
> though in the main discussion text we just stuck to access network, 
> core network and CDNs for simplicity
>
> 2.      Changed "wholesale replacement" to the more commonly used 
> "clean-slate", and clarified that it involves changes to existing 
> applications, protocol stacks, etc. in addition to changes to IP 
> routing
>
> 3.      Clarified interaction between normal IP routing running in the 
> Internet and ICN based routing in (1) ICN-as-an-Overlay, and (2) 
> ICN-as-an-Underlay
>
> 4.      Added references to ONAP.org which does MANO support for 
> ICN-as-a-Slice
>
> 5.      Added more details about Cisco's Hybrid-ICN approach, 
> including reference to their open source Cicn project, and expected 
> trials
>
> 6.      Clarified the main stakeholders in ICN deployments (included 
> adding end device manufacturer and user)
>
> 7.      Clarified details of NDN testbed
>
>
> We look forward to presenting and discussing more in Singapore.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Akbar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rahman, Akbar
> Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 8:19 PM
> To: Suthar, Prakash <[e-mail]>; icnrg <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Börje Ohlman <[e-mail]>; Oran, Dave 
> <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: [icnrg] New Version Notification for 
> draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03.txt
>
> Hi Prakash,
>
>
> Thank you very much for your detailed comments.  I will review them 
> with the rest of the authors and also take up your kind offer to 
> discuss with you off line.  We will plan to update our draft before 
> Singapore to address your comments.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Akbar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: icnrg [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Suthar, 
> Prakash
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 9:52 PM
> To: Rahman, Akbar <[e-mail]>; icnrg 
> <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Börje Ohlman <[e-mail]>; Oran, Dave 
> <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [icnrg] New Version Notification for 
> draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03.txt
>
> Hi Akbar,
> Greeting.
> I have reviewed 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03 
> and I have following comments for enhancement of document.
>
> Section 3.1 -
> Paragraph specifies that ICN deployment might be clean-slate replacing 
> large part of network, however considering practical network 
> limitations we should propose ICN deployments as different options.
> 1.      Clean slate or Native ICN
> 2.      Dual stack (IPoICN, ICNoIP)
> 3.      Hybrid (ICN packets encoded inside existing IP ) e.g. hICN 
> proposed by Cisco
> 4.      Any future technologies..
>
> Can we also refer to dis-aggregations of hardware and software using 
> white boxes that provides a mechanism to tightly integrate ICN 
> protocol inside routing platforms? You can refer to 
> http://www.fiercetelecom.com/telecom/at-t-s-white-box-trial-signals-disaggregated-platform-movement-driving-service-agility
>
> Section 3.4
> ICN provides a mechanism to be offered as slice i.e. "ICN-as-a-Slice" 
> in existing IP infrastructure. "ICN-as-a-Slice" can be created using 
> "cross-domain orchestrator". Cross-domain orchestrator shall be 
> capable of creating resources at service edge, transport (edge and 
> core), applications platforms by automating whole life cycle.  You can 
> also provide reference to Linux foundation OANP for cross-domain 
> orchestrator.
>
> For Hybrid ICN kindly refer to 
> https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/solutions/collateral/service-provider/ultra-services-platform/mwc17-hicn-video-wp.pdf). 
> Hybrid ICN (aka hICN) provides mechanism to carry ICN packet 
> information as a payload inside IP datagram.
>
> Section 3.3.2 Edge Network Migration
> Para-1: One of my suggestions is to rename "Edge Network" to "Service 
> Edge". Most of services will be hosted at the edge in MEC, and you can 
> suggest to use any of ICN deployment scenarios (refer sec 3.1).
>
> Para-2: For mobile networks, ICN protocol stack can be integrated in 
> eNodeB. You can refer to our draft draft-suthar-icnrg-icn-lte-4g-03. 
> Section 4.5 provides different mechanisms "ICN deployment in eNodeB".
>
> Section 4 - Deployment Migration Paths
> We should put 4th stake holder as UE or end user because they should 
> be able to indicate how they want to consume content by indicating 
> preference such as IP, ICN or don't care. In 
> draft-suthar-icnrg-icn-lte-4g-03 section 4.4.1 we have provided 
> options by introducing "transport convergence layer" which can be used 
> to indicate user's choice.
>
>
> Section 5.1
> Do you want to mention hICN work done by Cisco where we are able to 
> show performance efficiencies using hICN over IP based network? We 
> have released community ICN at fd.io https://wiki.fd.io/view/Cicn
>
> Any deployment or testbed reference to scalable Name resolution and 
> NSLR will be helpful. My colleague Anil has done testing at scale for 
> NSLR and you can cite reference.
>
> Section 7
> Para-1: Update with hICN.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/7/17, 12:03 PM, "David Oran" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>    I checked the minutes and it isn't clear who the second volunteer 
> was.
>    Hannu, did you volunteer to review the -03 version?
>
>    On 14 Aug 2017, at 15:03, Rahman, Akbar wrote:
>
>    > Hi Chairs,
>    >
>    > 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03
>    >
>    > We decided to do a quick update of our draft to address the 
> meeting
>    > comments from Prague.
>    >
>    > Prakahsh and Haru (?) - Please use this version for your review
>    > comments.
>    >
>    >
>    > Below is a short summary of the updates:
>    > -------------------------------------------------------
>    > 1.      Added reference to dual mode devices in section 4.1
>    > (Application and Service Migration) and referenced Prakash's
>    > "Native ICN for LTE" as an example.
>    > 2.      Added a summary section of deployment trial experiences 
> in new
>    > section 5.3 to draw conclusions from our analysis of the various
>    > deployments.
>    >        *       This addresses Eve Schooler's question of
>    > "whether ICN technology is ready for prime time deployment?"
>    > 3.      Scrubbed section 6 "further standardization" and added
>    > some more items (i.e. OAM, SFC impacts) to summary of protocol 
> gaps
>    > Table 1 and corresponding text.
>    > 4.      Added references to ICN over Low Power WLAN experiments 
> from
>    > Thomas Schmidt, and added new section 5.2.4. (NDN IoT Trials)
>    > 5.      Various editorial updates including:
>    >        *       Adding reference to ICNRG Charter in Intro
>    >        *       Clarified the differences in the island approach
>    > between "ICN-as-an-Overlay" and "ICN-as-an-Underlay" (i.e.
>    > former connected by ICN/IP tunnels, and later going through 
> gateways)
>    > 6.      Note: We think points 1 and 4 above together address 
> Lixia's
>    > comment on explicitly addressing "native ICN directly on top of
>    > wireless".
>    >
>    > -------------------------------------------------------
>    >
>    >
>    > Best Regards,
>    >
>    > Akbar
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > [cid:image319c60.PNG@20914401.4db2dff6]
>    > 
> [cid:image685d0f.PNG@0ca6e63c.4cac4f2e]<http://ir.interdigital.com/File/Index?KeyFile=37447876>
>    >
>    >
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>    > anyone other than its intended recipient. Unintended transmission
>    > shall not constitute waiver of any privilege or confidentiality
>    > obligation. If you received this communication in error, please 
> do not
>    > review, copy or distribute it, notify me immediately by email, 
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>    >
>    >
>    > -----Original Message-----
>    > From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
>    > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 2:51 PM
>    > To: Ravi Ravindran <[e-mail]>; Trossen, Dirk
>    > <[e-mail]>; Dirk Kutscher 
> <[e-mail]>;
>    > Ravi Ravindrna <[e-mail]>; Rahman, Akbar
>    > <[e-mail]>; Trossen, Dirk
>    > <[e-mail]>
>    > Subject: New Version Notification for
>    > draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03.txt
>    >
>    >
>    > A new version of I-D, 
> draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03.txt
>    > has been successfully submitted by Akbar Rahman and posted to the 
> IETF
>    > repository.
>    >
>    > Name:           draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines
>    > Revision:       03
>    > Title:          Deployment Considerations for Information-Centric
>    > Networking (ICN)
>    > Document date:  2017-08-14
>    > Group:          Individual Submission
>    > Pages:          23
>    > URL:
>    > 
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03.txt
>    > Status:
>    > 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines/
>    > Htmlized:
>    > 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03
>    > Htmlized:
>    > 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03
>    > Diff:
>    > 
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-rahman-icnrg-deployment-guidelines-03
>    >
>    > Abstract:
>    >   Information-Centric Networking (ICN) is now reaching 
> technological
>    >   maturity after many years of fundamental research and
>    >   experimentation.  This document provides a number of deployment
>    >   considerations in the interest of helping the ICN community 
> move
>    >   forward to the next step of live deployments.  First, the major
>    >   deployment configurations for ICN are described including the 
> main
>    >   overlay and underlay approaches.  Then proposed deployment 
> migration
>    >   paths are outlined to address major practical issues such as 
> network
>    >   and application migration.  Next, selected ICN trial 
> experiences are
>    >   summarized.  Finally, protocol areas that require further
>    >   standardization are identified to facilitate future 
> interoperable
>    > ICN
>    >   deployments.
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>    > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>    > tools.ietf.org.
>    >
>    > The IETF Secretariat
>    >
>    > _______________________________________________
>    > icnrg mailing list
>    > [e-mail]
>    > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/icnrg
>
>    DaveO
>
>
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> This e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity 
> to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is 
> privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to 
> anyone other than its intended recipient. Unintended transmission 
> shall not constitute waiver of any privilege or confidentiality 
> obligation. If you received this communication in error, please do not 
> review, copy or distribute it, notify me immediately by email, and 
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> stated in this e-mail, nothing in this message or any attachment 
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DaveO