Re: [idn] Document Status?
"Soobok Lee" <lsb@postel.co.kr> Sat, 14 September 2002 00:38 UTC
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From: Soobok Lee <lsb@postel.co.kr>
To: James Seng <jseng@pobox.org.sg>, IETF idn working group <idn@ops.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [idn] Document Status?
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 09:20:40 +0900
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----- Original Message ----- From: "James Seng" <jseng@pobox.org.sg> To: "Soobok Lee" <lsb@postel.co.kr>; "IETF idn working group" <idn@ops.ietf.org> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [idn] Document Status? > Change topic again? How typical :-) What change ? Track the history of ambiguity and zone admin problems in this list. > > Lets get back: There is two topic here. > > 1. registry vs Nameprep > > I have already answered you the Nameprep is okay. You have not make a case > registry mapping is going to be a problem. I and others already listed the case in this list. the mapping won't be reflected in protocols and application comparisons unlike that caseinsensitive matching of ASCII names. > > 2. "ambiguity" of Nameprep/IDNA > > You have only stated your opinion it is ambigous. You have absolute right to > do so. > But you have not stated any technical reasons why. You keep on insisting that IDN introduces no new security problem than that of '0' and 'o' in ASCII names. But that is not correct. IDN introduce the problem of look-exactly-identical chars. That was not in ASCII names. Soobok Lee > > -James Seng > > > Nameprep/stringprep's NFKS/Casefolding introduced the ambiguity into the > DNS > > and IDNA's ACE concept tunneled "that different beasts" through the > trusted or > > unsuspected ASCII namespace for which existing dns/application protocols > > have no filtering mechanism, while some of them have builtin filtering > machanisums for > > non-ASCII 8-bit strings now, like BIND or SENDMAIL. > > > > If this IDNA were introduced in early 1980 or 1990, at that time, many > protocols > > authors would have wanted to insert some sphiscatred filtering mechanisms > for > > ambiguous IDNs in their drafts. > > > > Soobok Lee > > > > > > > > If the registry choose to do additional mapping which will cause > > > incompatible with the Nameprep, then two things should happen: > > > > > > a) The registry should revise its policy to be compatible with Nameprep > > > (It is possible. See > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jseng-idn-admin-00.txt) > > > > > > b) If they choose not to, then they choose not to be compatible with > > > Nameprep. In such case, they shouldnt complain. (Beside, IETF does not > > > enforce anyone on compatibility) > > > > > > But lets get back: Nameprep is a client-side normalization. It is not > > > designed to handle the registry issues . Registry issues should be > handled > > > in other sets of documents. > > > > > > -James Seng > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Soobok Lee" <lsb@postel.co.kr> > > > To: "IETF idn working group" <idn@ops.ietf.org> > > > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 8:07 AM > > > Subject: Re: [idn] Document Status? > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 09:25:45PM +0000, Adam M. Costello wrote: > > > > > John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Which protocols are not impacted? Recently you were saying how > > > > > > > important it is for DNS update protocols to have distinct return > > > > > > > codes for "invalid name" versus "inadmissible name", so this > part of > > > > > > > the DNS protocol *would* be impacted by per-zone name > restrictions. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the IDNA spec has any impact on any [other] DNS-related > protocol, > > > > > > it falls outside the WG's scope. > > > > > > > > > > True, but irrelevant. The impact in question is the impact of > > > > > restrictions imposed by zone administrators, not the impact of IDNA. > > > > > > > > What if the restrictions imposed by zone admin are to enforce the > > > > unifications which were not covererd by NFKC/casefolding of IDNA? > > > > For example, purely font-variant char pairs( e.g., some TC/SC ), > > > > look-identical-pairs of chars within a script, and > > > > thousands of pairs of look-similar chars. Those were not in ASCII > > > > names and were introducedd into DNS by IDNA'a nameprep component. > > > > > > > > Personally, i haven't seen any zone admin who enforces '1' and 'l' > > > equivalence > > > > in his ASCII zone. > > > > But wrt IDN, i guess most (or all) zone admins will show serious > concerns > > > > about ununified latin 'i' and cyrillic 'i'. And that is why some > folks > > > > are working on 'IDN registration tool', as a post portem remedy, which > > > > cannot help dynamicly-updated-zones whose admins are trusting the > ASCII > > > and > > > > inadvertently the ASCII-tunneled IDN as well. > > > > > > > > I think this impact on DNS-protocols is caused by IDNA, not by zone > admins > > > > who may not even get noticed of the introduction of IDN space in > ASCII. > > > > > > > > Soobok Lee > > > > > > > > > Those restrictions are independent of IDNA. IDNA is not creating a > new > > > > > power for zone administrators, they have always had this power to > impose > > > > > additional restrictions. > > > > > > > > > > AMC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- RE: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? vinton g. cerf
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Doug Ewell
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Edmon Chung
- Re: [idn] The purpose of IDN Dave Crocker
- RE: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Stephen Dyer
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Paul Hoffman / IMC
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- [idn] Document Status? Hollenbeck, Scott
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… Soobok Lee
- RE: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? YangWoo Ko
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document Status… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Stephen Dyer
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- [idn] JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Edmon Chung
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Soobok Lee
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- RE: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Edmon Chung
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? YangWoo Ko
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… James Seng
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] The purpose of IDN Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] The purpose of IDN Patrik Fältström
- RE: [idn] Document Status? Hollenbeck, Scott
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- RE: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? vinton g. cerf
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] The purpose of IDN vinton g. cerf
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] IDNA text presentation (was Document St… Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Dave Crocker
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Edmon Chung
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- RE: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Paul Hoffman / IMC
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] Rick Wesson
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Simon Josefsson
- RE: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? vinton g. cerf
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Martin Duerst
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? YangWoo Ko
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? YangWoo Ko
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Martin Duerst
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- RE: [idn] Document Status? tsenglm
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- RE: [idn] Document Status? Hollenbeck, Scott
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- RE: [idn] Document Status? tsenglm
- RE: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Re: Document Status? Eric A. Hall
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- [idn] The purpose of IDN Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Edmon Chung
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Ted Hardie
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- [idn] Re: Document Status? Patrik Fältström
- RE: [idn] Document Status? Erik Nordmark
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Ted Hardie
- Re: [idn] Document Status? James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] James Seng
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Dave Crocker
- Re: [idn] Document Status? John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Soobok Lee
- Re: [idn] Document Status? Patrik Fältström