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Re: [Idr] Regarding draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect//答复: IDR interim (10/26/2015) 10:00am - 11:30am ET update

Gunter Van De Velde <guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com> Wed, 28 October 2015 10:06 UTC

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From: Gunter Van De Velde <guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com>
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Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:06:26 +0100
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References: <009b01d10f2e$5cc28820$16479860$@ndzh.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8CA5C638@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4D6BC339-51BE-4F90-8858-9B81859858F0@alcatel-lucent.com> <042101d110e5$439e2d50$cada87f0$@ndzh.com> <7BFD3160-0576-4AC7-919B-B73FA61BBB51@icloud.com> <009a01d1110f$7117ecb0$5347c610$@ndzh.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, jgs@bgp.nu
Subject: Re: [Idr] Regarding draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect//答复: IDR interim (10/26/2015) 10:00am - 11:30am ET update
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Many thanks for the table, due to the extra context i understand better how this table should be consumed and i realise that 
the embedded comparison has a tiny mistake, resulting in the unlucky consequence it provides mayor misleadings regarding 
traffic-steering-into-a-tunnel proposals.

It really makes no technical sense to classify draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect together with draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming-02 as they are totally orthogonal to each other.

The better bucket for draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect would be:

Traffic steering (or even your classification for ‘tunnels’ seems more appropriate)
  draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect
  draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel

Both of these drafts use flowspec to steer traffic into a tunnel (either IP or something else).
In draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel the steering-to-tunnel info and tunnel construct info is signalled together with the flowspec NLRI (e.g. additional attributes (MPP or encap-attribute)).
In draft draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect flowspec simply signals a redirect PATH_ID used as meta-data to identify a locallised tunnel or redirect construct in a localised PATH_ID table. 
This process allows that a tunnel construct is completely decoupled from flowspec signalling (there are many ways to construct this local table: draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming, encap-attribute, manual config, etc…).

Brgds,
G/



> On 28 Oct 2015, at 00:30, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
> 
> Gunter: 
>  
> Robin’s proposal is http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming/ <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming/>
>  
> See my attached comparison from the interim.  You can also download Robin’s slides from the interim.   
>  
> Sue 
>  
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Gunter Van De Velde
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 4:12 PM
> To: Susan Hares
> Cc: idr wg; jgs@bgp.nu <mailto:jgs@bgp.nu>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] Regarding draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect//答复: IDR interim (10/26/2015) 10:00am - 11:30am ET update
>  
> Hi Sue,
>  
> Would you know where to find Forwarding ID described in draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel to make assessment? 
> There is no mentioning of this concept at all in the document? Alternatively, what i found is signalling of tunnel end-point (IPv4/IPv6) and 
> some tunnel setup information (tunnel encap attribute and a new MPP TE tunnel attribute).
>  
> Brgds,
> G/
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>> On 27 Oct 2015, at 19:28, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com <mailto:shares@ndzh.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Gunter: 
>>  
>> Can you let me know the difference between the Path ID in your proposal and Robin’s Forwarding ID that is a generalized segment ID? 
>>  
>> Sue Hares
>>  
>> From: VAN DE VELDE, Gunter (Gunter) [mailto:gunter.van_de_velde@alcatel-lucent.com <mailto:gunter.van_de_velde@alcatel-lucent.com>] 
>> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 12:26 PM
>> To: Lizhenbin; Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
>> Cc: jgs@bgp.nu <mailto:jgs@bgp.nu>
>> Subject: Re: [Idr] Regarding draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect//答复: IDR interim (10/26/2015) 10:00am - 11:30am ET update
>>  
>> Hi Robin,
>>  
>> Thanks for your note.
>>  
>> A tunnel is not always going over shortest path. Some tunnels are TE tunnels and are deliberately not going over a shortest path. This is something that draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-00 will not help to signal because the tunnel-encap attribute indicates tunnel parameters used by the tail-end.
>>  
>> If a redirect tunnel represents a particular redirect/steering service (better delay, less packet loss, non-SRLG, more BW, etc…) then it does become rather complex for BGP as signalling technology because a tunnel relationship is a unique between 'a headend' and ‘a tailed' device. It seems better to leave tunnel-setup to dedicated tunnel-setup mechanisms like PCEP, SR, etc….
>>  
>> The draft redirect-to-PATH_ID is providing the means to signal a flow-based redirect/steering service, and have each recipient router identify using local recursion for the PATH_IDs the corresponding tunnels/redirect-info. This allows for tunnel setup complexity to be taken away from BGP, while at the same time BGP is doing what it is very good at doing: "It signals a policy” in reliable fashion.
>>  
>> Kind Regards,
>> G/
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From:  Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com <mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com>>
>> Date: Monday 26 October 2015 at 16:51
>> To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com <mailto:shares@ndzh.com>>, "idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>" <idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>>
>> Cc: "jgs@bgp.nu <mailto:jgs@bgp.nu>" <jgs@bgp.nu <mailto:jgs@bgp.nu>>
>> Subject: [Idr] Regarding draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect//答复: IDR interim (10/26/2015) 10:00am - 11:30am ET update
>>  
>> Hi Gunter,
>> Regarding your presentation, I have following comments:
>> Do you mean draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel is to signal tunnel setup info? draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel is to steer traffic to the tunnel instead of signal tunnel setup. 
>> I am not sure if the reuse of draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-00 in the draft make you confused? We just hope to  just reuses the attributes of to specify the tunnel type to help steering 
>> the traffic to tunnel. If this is not a good way, maybe we can define new attributes.
>>  
>>  
>> Best Regards,
>> Robin
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 发件人: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] 代表 Susan Hares
>> 发送时间: 2015年10月25日 22:07
>> 收件人: idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
>> 抄送: jgs@bgp.nu <mailto:jgs@bgp.nu>
>> 主题: [Idr] IDR interim (10/26/2015) 10:00am - 11:30am ET update
>>  
>> IDR WG members: 
>>  
>> Below is an updated agenda for the IDR interim on 10/26/2015.
>>  
>> Sue 
>>  
>> ------------
>> IDR interim October 26, 2015 
>> 10:00 - 11:30am 
>>  
>> 1. Chair's slides [10:00-10:05]
>>  
>> 1. draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01.txt
>>    speaker: Stephane Litowski  
>>    Time: 10:05-10:15
>>    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset/>
>>    
>> 2. draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel-00
>>    Speaker: Weiguo Hao
>>    Time: 10:15 - 10:25 
>>    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel/ <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel/>
>>    
>>    
>> 3. draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect
>>    Speaker: Gunter Van De Velde
>>    Time: 10:25- 10:35
>>    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect/ <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect/>
>>    
>>    
>> 4. Draft Name: draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3-02 
>>    Speaker: Weiguo Hao
>>    Duration: 10:35-10:40 
>>    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/ <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/>
>>    
>>  
>> 5. draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label-01.txt.
>>    Speaker: 
>>    Duration: 10:40-10:45 
>>   http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label/ <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label/>
>>    
>> 6. draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-time
>>    presenter: Jianjie You
>>    time: 10:45-10:55
>>    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-time/ <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-time/>
>>  
>> 7. Draft Name: draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming-02
>>    Speaker: Zhenbin Li
>>    Duration: 10:55-11:05 
>>    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming/ <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming/>
>>  
>> 7. Draft Name: draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd-01
>>    Speaker: Shunwan Zhuang
>>    Duration: 11:05 - 11:15 
>>    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd/ <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd/>
>>    
>> 8.  Discussion of Flowspec drafts
>>     11:15 - 11:30am 
>>  
>>  Meeting Web-ex information 
>>  Monday, October 26, 2015 
>> 10:00 am  |  Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)  |  2 hrs 
>>  
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>>  
>> Meeting number:            644 964 970 
>> Meeting password:         flow.in.nets
>>  
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>  
> <Hares-Discussion of Flowspec.pdf>

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