[Ieprep] e2e diffserv and ieprep
"Ayyasamy, Senthilkumar (UMKC-Student)" <saq66@umkc.edu> Fri, 13 December 2002 23:55 UTC
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Thread-Topic: [Ieprep] Re: Summary of IEPREP work and VoIP
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From: "Ayyasamy, Senthilkumar (UMKC-Student)" <saq66@umkc.edu>
To: "Nguyen, An" <nguyena@ncs.gov>, RJ Atkinson <rja@extremenetworks.com>, "King, Kimberly S." <KIMBERLY.S.KING@saic.com>
Cc: ieprep <ieprep@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Ieprep] e2e diffserv and ieprep
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> There are quite a few ISPs who implement Diff-Serv in IP. 1. Global crossing has deployed diffserv. The whole Doctoral dissertation of Xipeng Xiao is about experience in deploying Diffserv across global crossing. For people who have time/energy can look into his PhD work. http://www.cse.msu.edu/~xiaoxipe/papers/thesis/thesis.pdf ( It will really be interesting to read his dissertation. I could understand most of his thesis with less background.) Else, read three of his papers published in IEEE communication/ networks magazine.) 1."A Practical Approach for Providing QoS in the Internet Backbone" with Thomas Telkamp IEEE Communications Magazine, Dec. 2002. 2."Traffic Engineering with MPLS in the Internet" IEEE Network Magazine, Mar. 2000. 3."Internet QoS: A Big Picture" IEEE Network Magazine, March 1999. For people who dont have access to ieeexplorer, you can grab a copy from http://www.cse.msu.edu/~xiaoxipe/. 2. Operational view point: For a more operation point of view, look for thomas telkamp's presentation along with Dave/Randy/Lixia in oregon nanog. http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0210/complexity.html If you want to hear more on what thomas is saying: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0210/telkamp.html 3. If you have started liking QoS, look for Ash submission to tewg. http://www.research.att.com/~jrex/jerry/ Although, their is a lot of literature regarding QoS routing, i think reading this draft sums up everything. --------------------------------------------------- If your don't like QoS concept but still want to use operational heuristics/theoretical techniques to - optimize your routing strategies (traffic aware routing etc.) - Do traffic engineering without MPLS - efficiently plan your capacity. - How to give high availability for demanding traffic. - know how much to provision your backbone - find the rogue (high bw flows, non-responsive flows, DoS aggregate traffic.) see the works from http://ipmon.sprintlabs.com/ http://www.research.att.com/~jrex/ esp. sprintlabs has works claiming that their backbone has less (burstiness, packet reordering). Also, about how they help high availability for VoIP traffic without QoS. If your a fan of applying theoretical principles like teletraffic models,ARIMA modeling, Queuing theory, and network calculus to practical network problems, sprintlabs work has a lot to offer. One caveat: Both sprintlabs/ATT have a very good measurement system for getting up to date details about Backbone. They have passive measurement monitoring systems which samples packets and gives them details about their backbone. Based on those details, they can do all the above applications. But, lets take an ISP which doesn't have such a measurement system(?) and do brute force over provisioning without effective planning. I don't know but in some cases, it might backfire(?). In transportation networks, their is a concept called Braess paradox. Braess' paradox is said to occur in a network if the addition of an extra link leads to a worse performance. *Theoretically*, Frank Kelly proved its existence in loss networks. http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/bean95braes.html But, sure ...it will not exist in practical network scenarios. But, my point is, their might be some cases where unplanned provisioning can backfire. Might be operators help me understand whether they occur or not... Some related interesting Internet drafts: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-liljenstolpe-tewg-cwbcp-02.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhattacharyya-monitoring-sprint-00.txt ftp://ftp.sprintlabs.com/diot/mpls-white-paper.txt > In short, my point is we don't want to rule out anything at this EARLY > stage. Exactly.. the direction/tone of the discussion forced me to think that ieprep is ruling out many technologies standardized by IETF. For example, if end to end diffserv is not standardized by IETF, it doesn't mean that ieprep cant work anything involving DIffserv. Operators cant still do end to end diffserv by using RFC 2998 or do static provisioning across the domains. The only point that stuck me for no enough input for continuing e2e Diffserv in IETF is, - lack of wide spread diffserv deployment/Business models for inter-domain. (but this should not be a criteria as IETF assumes all inter-domain contracting issues in place.) - Their is no enough control plane work. All that is standardized by Diffserv WG is data plane work. Still, it needs a signaling mechanism to do control plane work (so, we have to wait for NSIS output http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-salsano-bgrpp-arch-00.txt) So, once we have inter-domain signaling in place, e2e Diffserv work can be continued. Other than this, we have seen many initiatives regarding e2e Diffserv/deployment. For example, i2 Bandwidth broker architecture, BuDs RG in IRTF( It is now defunct..I don't know about their deliverables but it is about diffserv deployment) and Diffserv deployment BOF( http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/research/decides/) IEPG meeting in Atlanta IETF had a presentation about Diffserv deployment although in a research network (http://www.potaroo.net/iepg/november2002/geant.pdf) I was forced to write this as the recent IAB minutes hints about ieprep WG and its relation to e2e diffserv. I still stand by my previous comments https://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/ieprep/current/msg00828.html about many problems with QoS deployment. But, the whole point is that, ieprep cannot simply reject a technology standardized by IETF since most of the operators currently dont use them. We have to unravel all the stones before coming to the conclusion that this particular extension works best for ieprep. _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep
- [Ieprep] e2e diffserv and ieprep Ayyasamy, Senthilkumar (UMKC-Student)