Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA registry
"Doug Ewell" <doug@ewellic.org> Sat, 12 December 2009 17:27 UTC
Return-Path: <doug@ewellic.org>
X-Original-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33A139E1BD for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:27:03 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JmNwPx6Keu6V for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:26:40 +0100 (CET)
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.8
Received: from pechora7.dc.icann.org (pechora7.icann.org [192.0.46.72]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 891F339E1AB for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:26:40 +0100 (CET)
Received: from smtpauth16.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpauth16.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.22]) by pechora7.dc.icann.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id nBCHQOuL025713 for <ietf-languages@iana.org>; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:26:44 -0500
Received: (qmail 13735 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2009 17:26:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (24.8.55.39) by smtpauth16.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.22) with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2009 17:26:23 -0000
Message-ID: <8BBDB0A899E7466AA379D02F65127B91@DGBP7M81>
From: Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>
To: ietf-languages@iana.org
References: <mailman.564.1260567104.5097.ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>
Subject: Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA registry
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 10:26:21 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; reply-type="original"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (pechora7.dc.icann.org [192.0.46.72]); Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:26:44 -0500 (EST)
X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Language tag discussions <ietf-languages.alvestrand.no>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:27:04 -0000
I do not see any rationale for adding 150, or any, ISO 639-3 code elements that were retired from that standard before RFC 5646 was approved. I strongly oppose the movement to do so. People who used draft-4645bis as a source for subtags such as 'eml' before 5646 was approved, or people who continue to believe ISO 639-3 code elements *are* subtags and used 'eml' on that basis, have made an error, plain and simple. The purpose of the Registry is not to recognize and codify incorrect usage. We could fill the Registry with thousands of wrong entries with pointers to the correct equivalent, if we wanted to go that route. It does not matter whether or not the retired 639-3 code elements are guaranteed not to be reused. They are not suitable candidates for language subtags. When an external standard retires/withdraws/deletes a code element that was once a valid BCP 47 subtag, the reason we retain the subtag as "Deprecated" is to retain the validity and meaning of VALID tags, NOT to maintain a history of the standard. 'eml' was not ever part of a valid tag. Only a very creative reading (in the sense of "creative bookkeeping") of RFC 5646, a document which John and many others in this thread participated in formulating, could lead to the conclusion that we MUST add all (or even some) of the 639-3 code elements that were never valid in BCP 47. Once again, if that were a goal of the LTRU WG, they would have been included in RFC 5645; but to the contrary, there is this specific wording in Section 2.1 of RFC 5645 (which was also a group effort): "Language code elements that were already retired in all of the source standards prior to IESG approval of this memo were not listed in these files and, consequently, were not considered in this update." Projects like CLDR may choose to provide an extended list of alias subtags, together with their preferred valid equivalents, but this is not the domain of the Registry. People WILL take the presence of 'eml' and friends in the Registry as proof they must be valid in BCP 47, no matter what annotations we add. Please do not proceed down this path. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages @ http://is.gd/2kf0s
- Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA regist… Michael(tm) Smith
- RE: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Phillips, Addison
- Retired 639-3 codes John Cowan
- RE: Retired 639-3 codes Lang Gérard
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Michael(tm) Smith
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Kent Karlsson
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Gerard Meijssen
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Doug Ewell
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Doug Ewell
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Doug Ewell
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Michael Everson
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Gerard Meijssen
- RE: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Phillips, Addison
- RE: Retired 639-3 codes Phillips, Addison
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Mark Davis ☕
- RE: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Lang Gérard
- RE: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Peter Constable
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Randy Presuhn
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… John Cowan
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… John Cowan
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Randy Presuhn
- RE: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Phillips, Addison
- RE: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Peter Constable
- RE: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Peter Constable
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… John Cowan
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Randy Presuhn
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Michael(tm) Smith
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Michael Everson
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Doug Ewell
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… John Cowan
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Randy Presuhn
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Michael(tm) Smith
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Doug Ewell
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… John Cowan
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Michael(tm) Smith
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes Michael(tm) Smith
- Multiple preferred values [was: Add retired tag "… Michael(tm) Smith
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Randy Presuhn
- Re: Multiple preferred values [was: Add retired t… Randy Presuhn
- Re: Request: Add retired tag "eml" to the IANA re… Doug Ewell
- Re: Multiple preferred values [was: Add retired t… Doug Ewell
- Re: Retired 639-3 codes John Cowan
- Re: Multiple preferred values [was: Add retired t… John Cowan