Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filtering problem
Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com> Mon, 05 October 2020 04:22 UTC
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From: Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com>
To: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2020 00:22:20 -0400
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Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filtering problem
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On Monday, October 5, 2020 12:06:25 AM EDT Keith Moore wrote: > On 10/4/20 11:48 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > On Sunday, October 4, 2020 10:18:08 PM EDT Keith Moore wrote: > >> It's because I care about Internet email, and having it work well. > >> It's because I hate to see Internet email lose out to FacedOut and > >> LockedBook and Tooter and Frop and most of the other profoundly > >> dysfunctional toys that people use for interpersonal messaging these > >> days. It's because (and I'll probably regret saying this) RFC821, > >> RFC822, and their descendants have actually held up fairly well in terms > >> of functionality, especially in comparison to these toys, though there's > >> clearly a need for improvement by now. > >> > >> I'd like to think that other people here also care about having Internet > >> email work well, but so far the loudest people just seem to be screaming > >> for their right to sabotage it. Maybe there's some good intent and > >> good faith buried in those arguments, but it's hard to see. > > > > My advice would be stare harder. > > > > In my view, email without spam filtering would be totally unusable. > > Well, in my experience, that depends. I operate some accounts with no > spam filtering, some with, using different accounts for different > purposes. That has worked fairly well for me. I do get some spam on > the unfiltered accounts, but not enough to be terribly bothersome, and > it's certainly better to leave spam filtering off for those accounts > than to risk losing a gig. > > (I have other accounts that get horrendous amounts of spam despite > having spam filtering. I'm phasing those out but it can take a long > time to update everyone's idea of your email address.) > > > Spam filtering email may cause problems, but it is still a net benefit. > > I do find spam filtering useful in some instances, but don't see a > general net benefit. Sometimes it's a win, sometimes it's a huge lose. And anyone who want to receive email without filtering is quite free to do so. > > It's necessary precisely because email is such a great messaging system. > > I don't follow that. Certainly spam filter is sometimes necessary, > though, because email is so accessible. What you said is the same thing I said, just said differently. > > What's your solution? Don't filter and deliver everything isn't a > > solution. It merely transfers the problem to someone else. > > Agree, but I wouldn't expect the optimum to be at such an extreme anyway. > > I have some ideas, but I don't think I could work out the entire > solution by myself. And in an environment with as much hostility as > this one, I don't think suggesting something that isn't both > comprehensive and comprehensible is likely to produce any kind of > constructive discussion. I will confess that I haven't been following the recent threads exhaustively, but I haven't seen it. I think the most hostile email I've seen recently is yours that I originally replied to where you accused people who disagree with you of actively wanting to sabotage email. I agree that sort of discussion is unlikely to be productive. Scott K
- [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filtering… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filte… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filte… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filte… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filte… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filte… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filte… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] why I'm discussing the spam filte… Bron Gondwana