Re: [Fwd: More information requested on publication status of draft-crocker-email-arch]
Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com> Tue, 26 May 2009 22:07 UTC
Return-Path: <presnick@qualcomm.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7839E3A6D62 for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 May 2009 15:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -105.547
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9OVJvIV-giXE for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 May 2009 15:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6823A6C65 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 May 2009 15:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=presnick@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1243375766; x=1274911766; h=mime-version:x-sender:message-id:in-reply-to:references: user-agent:date:to:from:subject:cc:content-type: x-ironport-av; z=MIME-Version:=201.0|X-Sender:=20presnick@resnick1.qualco mm.com@resnick1.qualcomm.com|Message-ID:=20<p06250101c642 158ad006@[75.145.176.242]>|In-Reply-To:=20<4A1C6239.90109 09@isode.com>|References:=20<4A1C6239.9010909@isode.com> |User-Agent:=20Eudora=206.2.5b1(Macintosh)|Date:=20Tue, =2026=20May=202009=2017:08:39=20-0500|To:=20Alexey=20Meln ikov=20<alexey.melnikov@isode.com>|From:=20Pete=20Resnick =20<presnick@qualcomm.com>|Subject:=20Re:=20[Fwd:=20More =20information=20requested=20on=20publication=20status=20 of=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=09draft-crocker-email-ar ch]|CC:=20<ietf@ietf.org>,=20<ietf-smtp@imc.org> |Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B=20charset=3D"us-ascii"=3B =20format=3Dflowed|X-IronPort-AV:=20E=3DMcAfee=3Bi=3D"530 0,2777,5627"=3B=20a=3D"18614934"; bh=2NGrxnDH5ZKbjN5wKA4zZyaj3JhvvFQP5yjoPH+/1No=; b=aPvqULzfG2G7FH7AWWBUrRn6A5hTr0S5HgyLzXg9hs+MTrRg6Kp6Toti d8KmcvsjFnW1k+pbOcGD3kIdKiaqjVY4LQuPLLxJ9/H830u6s0DUWSjHp qrFC0Il6LPEZsOeZp3FJzpDKApMrrOGgX+Wx/WchzoaqwysbGWPA9i7rp Y=;
X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5300,2777,5627"; a="18614934"
Received: from pdmz-ns-mip.qualcomm.com (HELO numenor.qualcomm.com) ([199.106.114.10]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 26 May 2009 15:09:01 -0700
Received: from msgtransport01.qualcomm.com (msgtransport01.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.148]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id n4QM90TF015851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 May 2009 15:09:00 -0700
Received: from nasanexhub02.na.qualcomm.com (nasanexhub02.na.qualcomm.com [10.46.143.120]) by msgtransport01.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id n4QM8fbk019616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 26 May 2009 15:09:00 -0700
Received: from nasanexmsp01.na.qualcomm.com (10.45.56.204) by nasanexhub02.na.qualcomm.com (10.46.143.120) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.358.0; Tue, 26 May 2009 15:08:44 -0700
Received: from [75.145.176.242] (10.46.82.6) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (10.45.56.204) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.340.0; Tue, 26 May 2009 15:08:44 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: presnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com@resnick1.qualcomm.com
Message-ID: <p06250101c642158ad006@[75.145.176.242]>
In-Reply-To: <4A1C6239.9010909@isode.com>
References: <4A1C6239.9010909@isode.com>
User-Agent: Eudora 6.2.5b1(Macintosh)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 17:08:39 -0500
To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: More information requested on publication status of draft-crocker-email-arch]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Cc: ietf@ietf.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 22:07:45 -0000
On 5/26/09 at 10:42 PM +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > 'Internet Mail Architecture' <draft-crocker-email-arch> as a >Proposed Standard > >Please indicate your preference for publishing the document as: > > 1. Proposed Standard, as queried in the two Last Call notices I believe it should be Proposed Standard. >Also please indicate your reason(s) for this choice. Restating something I sent to the IESG separately earlier: This is an architecture document. We don't do these much anymore in the IETF, and this one is particularly strange because it is describing an architecture for a deployed service. However, I don't think that means we should shy away from it. We in the email community have needed this document for a *very* long time. We end up re-discussing architectural issues in each new WG just to get our terms straight and constrain solution spaces (cf. LEMONADE, MARID, DKIM). And we need to have a document to point to so that newcomers can couch their proposals in terms we understand without having to re-argue the model every time. But in order for it to work in these roles, and for it to have the ability to evolve over time, it really needs to be a standards track document. Yes, there will inevitably be differences between the overall architecture of the system and the protocols that instantiate it. There are simply pragmatics which make such compromise required, and it is in fact a healthy tension. And yes, that fact means that some people will do stupid things, like claiming that where the architecture and protocols diverge, the architecture must win. There will always be such folks who don't understand that sometimes pragmatics prevail over architectural purity. But I think to not call this document what it is (i.e., an evolving community consensus on the email architecture) in fear of how it might be used is frankly a bit nuts. Let's address the problems as they arise rather than further diminishing the meaning of our document series. pr -- Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/> Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102
- [Fwd: More information requested on publication s… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Fwd: More information requested on publicati… Pete Resnick
- Re: More information requested on publication sta… John C Klensin
- Re: [Fwd: More information requested on publicati… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [Fwd: More information requested on publicati… Doug Otis
- Re: [Fwd: More information requested on publicati… Carsten Bormann
- Taking a time out Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Fwd: More information requested on publicati… Thomas Narten
- Re: Taking a time out John C Klensin
- Re: Taking a time out Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Taking a time out Doug Ewell
- Re: Taking a time out John C Klensin
- Re: [Fwd: More information requested on publicati… SM