Re: [IAOC] Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Fri, 04 June 2010 06:11 UTC
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Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 02:11:28 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Doug Barton <dougb@dougbarton.us>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [IAOC] Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures
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--On Wednesday, June 02, 2010 20:11 -0700 Doug Barton <dougb@dougbarton.us> wrote: > On 06/02/10 10:50, Bob Hinden wrote: >... >> Regarding the minutes, what can I say except mea maxima >> culpa. We have fallen behind and will try hard to get caught >> up between now and Maastricht. > > Bob, > > I think it's probably safe to assume that your actual goal in > this effort was to promote transparency. Given that as a goal, > one wonders if there are any activities in that category that > should have a higher priority than producing thorough and up > to date minutes, which the community has repeatedly asked for, > and which you have promised to produce. > > Put another way, given that there are only so many hours in > the day I have a hard time imagining why you would choose to > spend some of them working on this document instead of working > on the minutes. Of course, if there was some overwhelming > demand from the community for an administrative procedures > document that I'm not aware of, I'd appreciate a pointer so > that I can get up to speed. Perhaps modulo Doug's closing touch of humor, exactly. One subject on which BCP 101 --and, as Joel points out, the discussions leading up to the IASA-- is the IAOC's absolute obligation to transparency, including especially timely and informative minutes. There isn't any provision for "get everything else the IAOC thinks is important done first and then either get around to the minutes or be really apologetic about their absence". Absent an emergency that you are willing to explain to the community (in a timely way) as requiring a deviation from the rules, the IAOC's first obligation is to transparency. I believe that means that the community should not (and cannot) be expected to evaluate proposed administrative procedures in the absence of supporting minutes. "No minutes" or "minutes not up-to-date" means that the current IAOC administrative procedures are failing and that any proposed new procedures are irrelevant unless they identify the transparency problems (including slow minutes) and propose solutions that will work. The observation that we've been here before, that timely minutes were promised and the community was told that procedures had been changed to be sure they got produced, and that we are back with a lag of a few months just reinforces that point. If the IAOC were to conclude that timely minutes are an unrealistic expectation, then please come to the community --as provided for in BCP 101-- and make an alternate proposal. But, otherwise, please treat transparency, including timely minutes, as your first obligation, much higher in your priorities than tuning administrative procedures. john
- Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures IETF Administrative Director
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Sam Hartman
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures SM
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Ted Hardie
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures SM
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Jari Arkko
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Dave CROCKER
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures James Galvin
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures James Galvin
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Michael StJohns
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures John C Klensin
- Re: [IAOC] Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Bob Hinden
- Re: [IAOC] Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Dave CROCKER
- Re: [IAOC] Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Doug Barton
- Re: [IAOC] Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Ed Juskevicius
- Re: [IAOC] Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures joel jaeggli
- Re: [IAOC] Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures John C Klensin
- Re: Proposed IAOC Administrative Procedures Phillip Hallam-Baker