RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 advances in ARIN]
"Michel Py" <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> Tue, 18 April 2006 03:55 UTC
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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:55:55 -0700
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Thread-Topic: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 advances in ARIN]
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From: Michel Py <michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
To: Terry Gray <gray@washington.edu>, David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org>, ietf@ietf.org
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Subject: RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 advances in ARIN]
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Terry/David, > Terry Gray wrote: > *without* pervasive PI, the future of NAT (or some other > mechanism for providing address autonomy to organizations) > is absolutely guaranteed forever (even with v6)? > To me, that seems obvious Obvious it is to me too. Problem is: there are way too many people in here who have successfully renumbered their 4-host home network and never worked into a larger environment who think that because they successfully renumbered their home network in an hour the same can happen with an enterprise network. They've never been out in the real world, no wonder why they still wonder why the real world has embraced NAT. > It does make me wonder if there is any hope for resurrection of 8+8... There is not. First, 8+8 had disadvantages. Second, even though GSE and later MHAP tried to reduce the inconvenience, the fact if the matter is that nothing is as simple as raw PI; any dual-space ID-LOC system introduces yet another layer of complexity, bugs, incompatibilities, etc. In the end, it's all about money and timing is important: 8+8 was written when a core router had less memory and processing power than the cell phone I carry. As of today, it costs less to go PI than to go 8+8, without the shortcomings of 8+8. No brainer. > David Conrad wrote: > The end point identifier's upper 48 (or whatever) bits is being > "network address translated" into the routing locator (the lower > 80 bits would be untouched). But to avoid the soul-searing EVIL > (plain and simple, from beyond the 8th dimension) of NAT, you > simply reverse the translation, restoring the upper 48 bits > (which, conveniently, don't have to be carried around in the > packet since the destination is pretty much guaranteed to know > what end point identifier prefix it is at). The two EVILs cancel > each other out. A while ago, I designed exactly what you are describing: http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/draft-py-mhap-01a.txt It's going the same place than 8+8 and GRE: in the grave. Nice idea, but too much politics and money involved in deploying. Back to raw PI. Michel. _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Scott Leibrand
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Kevin Loch
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Kevin Loch
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Michel Py
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Scott Leibrand
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Noel Chiappa
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Scott Leibrand
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Jeroen Massar
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Peter Dambier
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Noel Chiappa
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Scott Bradner
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Edward Lewis
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Michel Py
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Scott Bradner
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Scott Bradner
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Steven M. Bellovin
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Tony Hain
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… william(at)elan.net
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Lixia Zhang
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Marshall Eubanks
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Noel Chiappa
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Christian Huitema
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Jeroen Massar
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… pesherb@yahoo.com
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Eliot Lear
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Joe Abley
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Jeroen Massar
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Kevin Loch
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Joe Abley
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Michel Py
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Patrick W. Gilmore
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Martin Hannigan
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Patrick W. Gilmore
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Bound, Jim
- Re: [ppml] [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in I… Leo Bicknell
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Bound, Jim
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Gert Doering
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Keith Moore
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Tony Hain
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Keith Moore
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Tony Hain
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Noel Chiappa
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Noel Chiappa
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Kevin Loch
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Terry Gray
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Joel M. Halpern
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Tony Hain
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Michel Py
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Noel Chiappa
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Noel Chiappa
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Keith Moore
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Eliot Lear
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Keith Moore
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Keith Moore
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Eliot Lear
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Erik E. Fair
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Peter Sherbin
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Kevin Loch
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Tony Hain
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- RE: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Tony Hain
- Re: [narten@us.ibm.com: PI addressing in IPv6 adv… Jari Arkko