Re: delegating (portions of) ietf list disciplinary process (fwd)

Let me ask you Ken: Are you participating in the IETF as part of your job?  Or
are you just here for personal kicks?

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005, Ken Raeburn wrote:

> Perhaps there is no legal standing for an expectation of privacy.   

It has nothing to do with legal standing. Its a question of etiquette.  Office
etiquette and backyard-fence etiquette are different.

> Still, it is generally considered discourteous among most serious email users,
> I think.  But we seem to have gone past the point where that matters to
> people.

This is only true with respect to PERSONAL communication. BUSINESS communication
is not personal communication.  

If my friends tell me something personal outside of business, I keep it private,
because its personal.  My friends don't write personal notes to the IETF Chair
complaining about me and my company. [certainly not feigning having no
position.] That would be business, and they probably wouldn't be my friends
anymore.

If you file a motion with the FCC or write a nasty gram to the IETF Chair, its a
business document. I have every right to publish it. Its not personal. 

And I do business favors, too, but I have no obligation to do so.

You don't understand the distinction between business and personal.

Actually, I'm now convinced that this is the whole problem with the abuse at the
IETF: An inability to distinguish between personal and organizational interests
and subject matter.

> So, if I wanted to make comments to you about IETF matters, people's personal
> conduct on mailing lists, etc, that I didn't want made public to fuel
> arguments I specifically don't want to add to, I should ask you to sign an NDA
> first?  Got it, I'll keep that in mind.

Those are business topics.  If you are concerned about "fueling" something, then
you should keep silent. Only a lack of fact adds "fuel", otherwise known as
hyperbole.  You should consider your business commications differently from your
personal communications.

> This has been vaguely entertaining for a while, at least until a friend of
> mine became one of the side targets.

Oh, I sympathize.  I thought it funny too, until I became a target of repeated
abuse, defamation, and disparagement for merely making true statements that
counterfeit anti-spammers didn't like.

The good thing is, lies wash off. But the truth sticks with you forever. Once
you are a Court-proven liar, associate with a court-proven liar, dishonest etc.,
that doesn't go away.  Alan Brown will be a 3-time court proven liar for the
rest of his life, unless he becomes a 4-time court proven liar.  Nothing he does
will ever remove that.  

Even a lesser miscreant, Chris Neill, fired for conducting open relay abuse he
was convinced was undetectable in 1999, just recently sent me a nasty gram.  6 
years later, and he hasn't forgotten. 

		--Dean

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