Re: [BEHAVE] Can we have on NAT66 discussion?

Scott Brim <swb@employees.org> Thu, 13 November 2008 16:51 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: ietf-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-ietf-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10BC28C201; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:51:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D3F28C201; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:51:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r7ZXGIdU4ESu; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:51:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D7528C1FD; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:51:41 -0800 (PST)
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,598,1220227200"; d="scan'208";a="27753372"
Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Nov 2008 16:51:31 +0000
Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id mADGpVtB003829; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:51:31 -0500
Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mADGpVZa013887; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:51:31 GMT
Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:51:31 -0500
Received: from sbrim-mbp.local ([10.86.243.186]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:51:30 -0500
Message-ID: <491C5B11.1020607@employees.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:51:29 -0500
From: Scott Brim <swb@employees.org>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Macintosh/20080914)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker@verisign.com>
Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] Can we have on NAT66 discussion?
References: <CA10A01F-D7A4-4769-BB06-7AF0FCC61F75@muada.com> <courier.491ACAEB.000010B8@softhome.net> <courier.491AEBCE.000003E0@softhome.net> <21E58B55-65E2-4E95-9876-B9418A983BC8@lilacglade.org> <491BFCCD.1040005@cisco.com> <18d24aa20811130428g38183456ia296294bec0a1bf8@mail.gmail.com> <491C3569.4010803@cisco.com> <2788466ED3E31C418E9ACC5C316615572FFB3F@mou1wnexmb09.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>
In-Reply-To: <2788466ED3E31C418E9ACC5C316615572FFB3F@mou1wnexmb09.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2008 16:51:31.0010 (UTC) FILETIME=[1412B220:01C945B0]
Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=swb@employees.org; dkim=neutral
Cc: v6ops@ietf.org, Behave WG <behave@ietf.org>, ietf@ietf.org, Routing Research Group Mailing List <rrg@irtf.org>, Eric Klein <ericlklein.ipv6@gmail.com>, Mark Townsley <townsley@cisco.com>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org

On 11/13/08 10:06 AM, Hallam-Baker, Phillip allegedly wrote:
> 
> I beleive that the question would not arise If we had a coherent
> Internet architecture
>  
> The idea that an application can or should care that the IP address of a
> packet is constant from source to destination is plain bonkers. It was
> no an assumption in the original Internet architecture and should not be
> an assumption that any application should rely on.

That's not the problem.  The issue is location.  Once we have
established a session then how the packets are labeled for network layer
purposes doesn't matter much (modulo security) but how do we get
communications set up in the first place?  Suppose I want to reach
"foo".  Who do I ask to find a locator for him?  Split DNS works fine
when there are just two states, inside and outside -- a DNS server can
be configured to know how to respond in each case.  But if you were to
sprinkle NATs all over the Internet there would be no place that could
give a confident answer about how I, over here, should name foo in the
network layer in order to get a packet to him, and have that answer get
to me in the correct form.  So it is very important to understand where
we think it might be safe to put what kinds of NATs.

swb

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf