Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not?
"Steven M. Bellovin" <smb@research.att.com> Fri, 11 August 2000 01:20 UTC
Received: by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) id VAA18021 for ietf-outbound.10@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:20:03 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (H-135-207-30-103.research.att.com [135.207.30.103]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA15448 for <IETF@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:41:55 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from postal.research.att.com (postal.research.att.com [135.207.23.30]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB6E1E005; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:41:56 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from smb.research.att.com (postal.research.att.com [135.207.23.30]) by postal.research.att.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17773; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:41:54 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from smb.research.att.com (localhost.research.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by smb.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7794835DC2; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:41:48 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with version: MH 6.8.3 #1[UCI]
From: "Steven M. Bellovin" <smb@research.att.com>
To: "Corzine, Gordie" <Gordon.Corzine@compaq.com>
Cc: "'IETF@ietf.org'" <IETF@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:41:42 -0400
Sender: smb@research.att.com
Message-Id: <20000810224148.7794835DC2@smb.research.att.com>
X-Loop: ietf@ietf.org
In message <C99A689B0CB9D111AF3F0000F8062CCD0BC66355@zkoexc2.zko.dec.com>, "Cor zine, Gordie" writes: >Using the IP address, you index into a table with 100 M entries, pick up an >index into the 75K entry routing table. You now have two tables that >require maintenance, that's all. If customer changes ISP, their entry in >the first table is changed. Link is down, the second table's mechanisms >handle it. Use a 64 bit processor architecture, memory is cheap. >Re-architecting the Internet is going to become all but impossible. The issue isn't table lookup; it's the routing table calculation (and, in the case of your particular example, the sheer amount of data that has to be passed around). Put another way, how does each router know what should be in those 100M entries? > >Its a matter of separating routing from identification. Phrased somewhat differently, there are a lot of people who agree, though it's still a controversial notion. See if you can find a copy of draft-ietf-ipngwg-esd-analysis-06.txt (or -05) -- it's a description of the best worked-out proposal, plus a refutation of it. (I disagree with the refutation, but I'm not going to go into that now -- I think that the proposal is sound.) Briefly, the idea is to use the high-order 8 bytes of the v6 address for inter-site routing, and the low-order 8 bytes for host id.) But that still requires hierarchical assignment and routing for the high-order 8 bytes. *No one* knows how to do it any differently. > >Look, my days as an engineer are a distant memory, so I won't try to work >this out in detail. Mere assertions that it is possible, in the face of the prevailing wisdom that it isn't, just won't cut it. Maybe you're right, maybe it can be done -- and if so, it won't be the first time that the accepted wisdom is wrong. But the > Maybe there are irrefutable reasons why this can't be >done, but I do believe the current architecture will lead to premature >exhaustion of the address space. Apart from the fact that 128 bits is Really Big, v6 is supposed to have easy renumbering, so that we can renumber sites as they're move around to different pieces of the topology. --Steve Bellovin
- Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Corzine, Gordie
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Valdis.Kletnieks
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Steven M. Bellovin
- RE: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Corzine, Gordie
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Fred Baker
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Keith Moore
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Vijay Gill
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Lloyd Wood
- RE: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Rakers, Jason
- RE: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Steven Cotton
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? John Kristoff
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Sean Doran
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? John Day
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Masataka Ohta
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Fred Baker
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Sean Doran
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Lloyd Wood
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Sean Doran
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Salavat R. Magazov
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Salavat R. Magazov
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Matt Crawford
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? John Day
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Geoff Huston
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Matt Crawford
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Bill Manning
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Donald E. Eastlake 3rd
- RE: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Philip J. Nesser II
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Loa Andersson
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Måns Nilsson
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Mike Bresina
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? John Day
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Lloyd Wood
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- RE: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Philip J. Nesser II
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Bill Manning
- Re: Sequentially assigned IP addresses--why not? Anthony Atkielski
- NAT, v6, etc. Perry E. Metzger
- Re: NAT, v6, etc. Masataka Ohta