Re: Language editing

t.p. <daedulus@btconnect.com> Fri, 03 May 2013 08:30 UTC

Return-Path: <daedulus@btconnect.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27CC821F94FD for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 3 May 2013 01:30:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xU-arNmJ3vqK for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 3 May 2013 01:30:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.184]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B48921F9457 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 3 May 2013 01:30:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail137-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.251) by CH1EHSOBE009.bigfish.com (10.43.70.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 3 May 2013 08:30:25 +0000
Received: from mail137-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail137-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B4D400247; Fri, 3 May 2013 08:30:25 +0000 (UTC)
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.253.85; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:DB3PRD0710HT005.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI
X-SpamScore: -16
X-BigFish: PS-16(z569dhzbb2dI98dI9371I542I1432Izz1f42h1fc6h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ahzz17326ah1954cbh8275bh8275dh8275ch1033ILz2dh2a8h5a9h668h839h93fhd24hf0ah1177h1179h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah139eh13b6h1441h1504h1537h162dh1631h1758h17f1h184fh1898h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh19f0h1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh304l1d11m1155h)
Received: from mail137-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail137-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1367569823129969_16454; Fri, 3 May 2013 08:30:23 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from CH1EHSMHS033.bigfish.com (snatpool1.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.251]) by mail137-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 134894A0048; Fri, 3 May 2013 08:30:23 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from DB3PRD0710HT005.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.253.85) by CH1EHSMHS033.bigfish.com (10.43.70.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 3 May 2013 08:30:22 +0000
Received: from pc6 (86.166.98.191) by pod51017.outlook.com (10.255.75.40) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.305.3; Fri, 3 May 2013 08:30:07 +0000
Message-ID: <008f01ce47d7$b4992840$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net>
From: "t.p." <daedulus@btconnect.com>
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>, Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>
References: <mailman.21.1367521206.21891.ietf@ietf.org><5182DD64.7040205@gmail.com> <5182E2A8.50800@acm.org> <5182F307.60107@stpeter.im>
Subject: Re: Language editing
Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 09:24:39 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-Originating-IP: [86.166.98.191]
X-FOPE-CRA-SourceIpAddress: 157.56.253.85
X-FOPE-CRA-DRYRUN: 1207119;1
X-FOPE-BFA-SENDER: daedulus@btconnect.com
X-FOPE-BFA-RECEIVER: yaronf.ietf@gmail.com
X-FOPE-BFA-RECEIVER: ietf@ietf.org
X-FOPE-BFA-RECEIVER: stpeter@stpeter.im
X-FOPE-BFA-RECEIVER: petithug@acm.org
X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com
Cc: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 08:30:31 -0000

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Saint-Andre" <stpeter@stpeter.im>
To: "Marc Petit-Huguenin" <petithug@acm.org>
Cc: "Yaron Sheffer" <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>; <ietf@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 12:13 AM
>
> On 5/2/13 4:03 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin wrote:
> > On 05/02/2013 02:40 PM, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
> > An alternative would be to have the RFC-editor doing copyediting of
> > I-Ds for a fee.  Depending on the cost, I would use such service
> > for my I-Ds.  That would be good for everybody:  I would spend less
> > time trying to make my text legible and more making the protocol
> > described in it better.  And because the document would have been
> > copy-edited by the same people that will publish the RFC, that's
> > less work at the end.
>
> Instead of imposing even more work on the RFC Editor team, I suggest
> that you find someone in the WG, in your company, in the IETF
> community (etc.) to help with the language issues. I did this recently
> with a document in one of the WGs where I'm active and it worked quite
> well (especially if the document is under source control and you can
> just send a patch).

Ah, there's the rub.

I have done this on a number of occasions for a variety of people and
editing the text file of an I-D is almost trivial compared to then
incorporating the amendments, some agreed, some debated, some rejected,
into the XML, in doing so introducing the need for further amendments
(problem generates change generates problem generates ... the cycle
beloved of all software developers).

We really do need a tool, the like of which I was using 40 years ago
when writing code, that allows patches to be applied independently and
temporarily to see what it then looks like and if agreed that it looks
good, incorporating them permanently into the source (XML).  Ideally
such a tool would reverse engineer the amended text into XML patches as
well - text is so much easier to work with than XML (or any other markup
language).

Tom Petch

> Peter
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin)
> Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRgvMHAAoJEOoGpJErxa2p1WkP/Ao11JgbfdPk1+r5psycC4yW
> hc9qCTZeJEuXHHEG5mFLXyuEugkL1LKDjH7TAHql3o28iRYi1P+0LnR4l4Eg27u8
> Rfk8TrQ3pE0EHOiMhtX9b1G718iyQAR6bxjBJhR0Sc6f5Y2x4drqZQd4xwHggNCz
> uKp58+mrEizUBM3V6+JtCJAQj/mOv3HVbbSij8yWWYvJzuOP1nJ+rqEaI/0lBct5
> rkWrefJogtxRHIrwALKmV+BYV99MyDzmm4kwZj+rDzqy/epq77FkqvZUms9EkLZW
> HYLWE9RL/onV+XOLbjkSIvjqjCgKdaS1FpMH6zqYidNN491bLAQacyI0QS9d6dGw
> 9AbDMf1uTxWcfWyB4LrwFFVyA8ZVCWO+1d5up+LSRgfGR/u0WhbyiaJqN0JKy10t
> 0yJ30+4rwsYjtzsOWy1Zggn8bD4uXXdyjbw8X6Ze69A8ChBlIqticIf4mEd12qSO
> E6k8SqtsoX17QmEU8oa7RwNaIbQ59txVju0NHEDlYreBKdHeRrki1SuK5+VrOJAg
> yTqzNkpJskgwFukSfLBiX446c4luXkQ4XoSWT3NdkqxIq2ikpXh3WU2p0WgDTM+G
> EreYmGTQXP9YV2Ieb+nMsj1pNbD0gB5a8CpXWLe859IIu2ga1uCcxo99LqPymNJB
> hmkU2s1OJ2xuR1/d5Anx
> =JEpp
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>