Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: draft-housley-tls-authz-extns
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Sat, 31 March 2007 14:29 UTC
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Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:28:48 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Scott W Brim <swb@employees.org>
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Cc: iesg@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: draft-housley-tls-authz-extns
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--On Saturday, 31 March, 2007 08:49 -0400 Scott W Brim <swb@employees.org> wrote: > On 03/30/2007 13:56 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >> For whatever it is worth, I think we need to step carefully >> around the distinction Paul makes above: there are almost >> certainly circumstances in which we should accept a broader >> grant of rights conditional on standardization and a narrower >> one if the technology is not standardized. I wish the IPR WG >> were paying a bit more attention to this sort of issue. > > This is a WG decision. IPR WG could produce guidance on the > subject, but that's all. What are you looking for? While I have an opinion on this particular case, I am more concerned about our precedents and decision-making processes than I am about it. Paul's note seemed to be saying "the IETF should never accept material if IPR conditions are contingent on standardization". I don't know if that is what he intended, but I consider such a principle to be dangerous to us if generalized". I believe that any time the IETF considers adoption of an encumbered technology we need to weight importance of standardizing any technology in the area and the availability of alternatives against the particular encumbrances. I believe that is the case whether the issue is particular IPR terms (such as RAND iff standardization) or the specifics of the encumbrances. I believe that decision ultimately has to be an IETF one, not merely that of an individual WG. But I believe that advice from the appropriate WG is useful to the community in determining whether something should be standardized in spite of the IPR entanglements. To some extent, if a WG is given the opportunity to examine a particular proposal and chooses to not take it up and comment, that provides part of the answer: absent strong evidence from other sources, the proposal isn't valuable enough to standardize especially given IPR restrictions. > On 03/30/2007 14:36 PM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: >> If the IPR issues are the sole remaining factor in the IETF's >> decision as to whether to make a protocol a standard, then I >> think it is entirely reasonable for the IETF to consider an >> offer which would eliminate or at least mitigate those issues >> if the protocol were to become a standard. > > As Spencer pointed out, text like "If included in a standard" > is common. We already do this implicitly. Indeed. john _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Frank Ellermann
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Dave Cridland
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Peter Sylvester
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Ted Hardie
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Ted Hardie
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Ted Hardie
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Mark Brown
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Paul Hoffman
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … John C Klensin
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Spencer Dawkins
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Scott W Brim
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … John C Klensin
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Eliot Lear
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman
- [Dean Anderson] RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Se… Sam Hartman
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Mark Brown
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Russ Housley
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Russ Housley
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Russ Housley
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Russ Housley
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Russ Housley
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … hartmans-ietf
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Jari Arkko
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Tony Finch
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Jari Arkko
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Theodore Tso
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Scott W Brim
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Theodore Tso
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … kent
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Theodore Tso
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Douglas Otis
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Joel Jaeggli
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Jeffrey Hutzelman
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Lawrence Rosen
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … John C Klensin
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Contreras, Jorge
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Theodore Tso
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Pekka Savola
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … John C Klensin
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Mark Brown
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Mark Brown
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Thierry Moreau
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Thierry Moreau
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Simon Josefsson
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Brad Hards
- RE: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Mark Brown
- Re: Withdrawal of Approval and Second Last Call: … Sam Hartman