Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers?
Doug Royer <douglasroyer@gmail.com> Fri, 21 April 2017 13:59 UTC
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Subject: Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers?
To: ietf@ietf.org
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From: Doug Royer <douglasroyer@gmail.com>
Organization: http://SoftwareAndServices.NET
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Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:59:35 -0600
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On 04/21/2017 06:06 AM, Philip Homburg wrote: >> You send me a signed email from a mutually trusted source. I now have >> your public key, because you can extract it from the signed S/MIME >> email. (I am guessing you can do this with PGP.) > > Just replying to a random part of the discussion. > > Is there any kind of description and any kind of agreement of what attacks > secure mail is supposed to defend against? I am not a security expert, I did however buy a couple of them lunch at an IETF meeting years ago and I am sure that the experts will correct any misstatements I have made here. S/MIME has been working for years. > Without a clear statement of what it is supposed to do, it is not possible > to figure out whether a proposal actually meets that goal. And without a > clear goal it is also not possible to figure out if the system is going to > useful or not. To be clear, this is not a goal or proposal. This is how S/MIME works now. This is how it was designed to work. > People have wildly different ideas of what e-mail security means. > > In the context of this discussion, one thing I'm curious about, and something > that should be clear from the description of the attack vectors, is who > controls a key. You should be in control of your private keys. You private key is as secure as you make it. The average non-technical user will just send email, get email, and might make sure that the signed, or encrypted email checkbox is checked in their MUA. > To put it in terms of TLS certificates, is an e-mail key 'DV' or 'EV'? > It is easy to come up with lots of ways in which a domain holder can provide > a public key for a mailbox at that domain. But is that what we want? > In some cases, like corporate mailboxes, probably yes. In other cases, > journalists or activists with an e-mail account at a big e-mail provider, > probably not. The only reason you need to fetch a persons private key first, is so that you do not have to exchange the signed and not encrypted key first. And I would imagine that a journalist and activists would most definitely want people to send them encrypted email. -- Doug Royer - (http://DougRoyer.US http://goo.gl/yrxJTu ) DouglasRoyer@gmail.com 714-989-6135
- Why are mail servers not also key servers? Jon
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Nico Williams
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Paul Wouters
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Yoav Nir
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Yoav Nir
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Paul Wouters
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Matthew Kerwin
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Jon
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Nico Williams
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? John Levine
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Paul Wouters
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Paul Wouters
- RE: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Rui Costa
- RE: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Rui Costa
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Martin Thomson
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? John Levine
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Philip Homburg
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? John Levine
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Rich Kulawiec
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? John C Klensin
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? John C Klensin
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Philip Homburg
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Wei Chuang
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? John R Levine
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Martin Thomson
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Dave Crocker
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer
- Re: Why are mail servers not also key servers? Doug Royer