RE: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying Material Exportersfor Transport Layer Security (TLS)) to Proposed Standard
"Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)" <jsalowey@cisco.com> Wed, 22 July 2009 22:39 UTC
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Subject: RE: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying Material Exportersfor Transport Layer Security (TLS)) to Proposed Standard
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:31:01 -0700
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Thread-Topic: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying Material Exportersfor Transport Layer Security (TLS)) to Proposed Standard
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From: "Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)" <jsalowey@cisco.com>
To: Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com>
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Cc: Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>, ietf-honest@lists.iadl.org, ietf@ietf.org, tls@ietf.org
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I agree with Simon that the IETF's disclosure page could use some work, it seems rather confusing and it is not consistently filled out. Comments inline below: > If your interpretation were correct, then we would have to > say that Certicom is not claiming IPR on _any_ IETF > document---draft or RFC---since none are listed in Section V. > But I think that is obviously incorrect---I think you have > misinterpreted what should be in which section. > [Joe] Are we both looking at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1154/? In section V I see several documents listed: "RFC 3278, RFC 4109, RFC 4492, RFC 4753, RFC 4754, RFC 4869, RFC 5008, RFC 5289, draft-rescorla-tls-suiteb-12, draft-green-secsh-ecc-07, draft-igoe-secsh-suiteb-00, draft-ietf-smime-3278bis-07, draft-ietf-smime-sha2-11" > Section titles and descriptions: > > Section IV. IETF Document or Other Contribution to Which > this IPR Disclosure Relates: > > Section V. Disclosure of Patent Information (i.e., patents > or patent applications required to be disclosed by Section 6 > of RFC 3979) > > Section IV lists the drafts and RFCs. Section V lists the patents. > One would not expect to find a draft or RFC listed in Section > V, nor a patent listed in Section IV. > > Extractor and other documents are listed in section IV. > [Joe] Section V also has a sub-section C, which allows you to specify what parts of IETF documents are covered by the patent information disclosed in section V. This section lists several documents which is a subset of what is mentioned in section IV. This seems straight forward to me. Joe > --Dean > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Joseph Salowey (jsalowey) wrote: > > > While I see that draft-ietf-tls-extractor is listed in section IV of > > #1154 IPR disclosure as related material, I see that it is > explicitly > > not listed in section V part C which lists what is specifically > > covered by the disclosure. I don't think Certicom is > claiming IPR on > > draft-ietf-tls-extractor because it is not among the list > of documents > > in section V. > > > > Joe > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > > > Of Simon Josefsson > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:32 PM > > > To: ietf@ietf.org; tls@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying Material > > > Exportersfor Transport Layer Security (TLS)) to Proposed Standard > > > > > > With the caveat that I have recently returned from vacation, and > > > consequently may have missed some clarifications or paged out some > > > context: > > > > > > If the #1154 IPR disclosure is the final word from > Certicom on this > > > document, I don't support advancing this document on the > standards > > > track. My concern remains that Certicom claims they have > IPR that > > > covers the document -- that is what the > > > #1154 disclosure says (section IV). The additional information > > > provided in the PDF is not helping: it grants a license for use > > > together with ECC. It doesn't say anything about the use without > > > ECC. > > > > > > The way I see it, TLS implementers and the broader > Internet does not > > > gain something significant by having this document > published. Other > > > IETF documents can use the TLS PRF to derive keying material. On > > > the contrary, it seems both TLS implementers and the broader > > > Internet community would be hurt by publishing the document since > > > having patent threats looming over widely used techniques has > > > stability and interoperability impacts. > > > > > > I recall that Certicom was positive about clarifying their > > > intentions so maybe we can continue that discussion and get > > > something more useful than the recent disclosure. > > > > > > Speaking as TLS implementer of the document and document > [1] author > > > that reference this document, /Simon > > > > > > [1] > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-krb5starttls-bootstrap-02 > > > > > > The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> writes: > > > > > > > The IESG has received a request from the Transport > Layer Security > > > > WG > > > > (tls) to consider the following document: > > > > > > > > - 'Keying Material Exporters for Transport Layer > Security (TLS) ' > > > > <draft-ietf-tls-extractor-06.txt> as a Proposed Standard > > > > > > > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, > > > and solicits > > > > final comments on this action. Please send substantive > comments > > > > to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2009-08-10. > > > Exceptionally, comments > > > > may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please > > > > retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow > automated sorting. > > > > > > > > The file can be obtained via > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tls-extractor-06.tx > > > > t > > > > > > > > > > > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > > > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&d > > > Ta > > > > g=16821&rfc_flag=0 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ietf mailing list > > > Ietf@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TLS mailing list > > TLS@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls > > > > > > -- > Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? > www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service > 617 344 9000 > > > >
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Dan Harkins
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Douglas Stebila
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying M… Simon Josefsson
- RE: Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying M… Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)
- Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying M… Simon Josefsson
- RE: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Richard Stallman
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Jeffrey A. Williams
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Jeffrey A. Williams
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Jeffrey A. Williams
- RE: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Matthew Campagna
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Jeffrey A. Williams
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Richard Stallman
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Jeffrey A. Williams
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Richard Stallman
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Jeffrey A. Williams
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Noel Chiappa
- RE: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Wes Beebee (wbeebee)
- RE: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… David Morris
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Richard Stallman
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Richard Stallman
- RE: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Lawrence Rosen
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Stephen Kent
- Patents and reality Dave Cridland
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Michael Tüxen
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… ned+ietf
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor(Key… Jeffrey A. Williams
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [TLS] Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Ke… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying M… Simon Josefsson