Re: [Iot-onboarding] draft-sarikaya-t2trg-sbootstrapping-05 is really good
Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com> Tue, 04 December 2018 16:17 UTC
Return-Path: <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: iot-onboarding@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: iot-onboarding@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE9A130E85; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 08:17:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.748
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YAtZ-ZOVFqoC; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 08:17:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com (mail-wr1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9943130DE2; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 08:17:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id q18so16567919wrx.9; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 08:17:04 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=ZN3uyE6uQw90AOqYbpaNtXItUerUDnwiztcMRxFPpJk=; b=uJO7hSxilxEdsqBiRBCybnCkTEdLVWJIOcyliJ4QiR0QbsOREG7HL9jgN99YfjpTeq JW4x0reLCTayeZjDjh6XkG3C7QMKsEFflRB37dqZ9gtSyX9p0NmrkYKy+fbPAA3HAP+R ZYHTNQepoGJpxpOGLoUjkqdYyCHnYIcD/Xl1nm1H+3DVE7n4O83CSjTbmBX6D+dwzI23 zbExnaoZtxDg7PXAPINw3nsLL7d6wtlDK7N3/IL2EXpZd2WSM0wK+Pngo4lnfWF8zTNJ 3mqbQfDtVpcl75qe+nd5LSq+YwaQJ3fg9l0lMUzhdtM0yX9CKReCJDu1UfiHWkM6Jtlc oeVw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZN3uyE6uQw90AOqYbpaNtXItUerUDnwiztcMRxFPpJk=; b=B8WGZz5726unZGZT5SJjPtkIHnB48fLoxnZkmBimQ2f9VxZMFzKkBmy0nVzdXVlhke vD7L2XfjSMC9z8TNe4n7xz39lR0ZsfjteP/Xja95lw7w8u7CeDl3uYf3gVRgQL2AuAsJ v14NizAQrA76ynZl0F1UqOn3L917weDiy3V4MF4qiS16LkeNgMZVSKgZRqHoBxcM3GVc gZPVtkM9eAxA8k+dViZ1+mGQLiRapouJHJHbyay6kdlrqMfe6epJ4bPKvi27R+LT77Cq 5k/kideL7yYdRpNy5WFBhl+FvdFZpdqf3QrgA2/YjwTZCz92/FOMn81x6CERFAqRNRCn 8kSQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZKWwHNtetsKFVV+X1eqAYiNAAGtxlSqGkKWe/3qctqP6rqjuHp MMArjjDKJBKvauzTHJxawcJNilmPWXG4AEUlXKY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/V4DljyqZw+nqVfw+UmGklPlnLhat1p/xXnSOlnOQ7VMW/OLdyMmh0NLFBuQOi8BAhRO5y4pXcvCZn9QATYKIM=
X-Received: by 2002:adf:9c8a:: with SMTP id d10mr18193417wre.244.1543940223397; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 08:17:03 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <13966.1543783081@dooku.sandelman.ca>
In-Reply-To: <13966.1543783081@dooku.sandelman.ca>
Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org
From: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 10:16:51 -0600
Message-ID: <CAC8QAcdzjS4OhPxcoSw-X8ad0adwCwJEQKqcN+ZufzpBu13qBw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "t2trg@irtf.org" <t2TRG@irtf.org>
Cc: iot-onboarding@ietf.org, draft-sarikaya-t2trg-sbootstrapping@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000091f44e057c349898"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iot-onboarding/Vy6vjuM3EkEWhTsezACdVDpuRHA>
Subject: Re: [Iot-onboarding] draft-sarikaya-t2trg-sbootstrapping-05 is really good
X-BeenThere: iot-onboarding@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <iot-onboarding.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/iot-onboarding>, <mailto:iot-onboarding-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/iot-onboarding/>
List-Post: <mailto:iot-onboarding@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:iot-onboarding-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iot-onboarding>, <mailto:iot-onboarding-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 16:17:08 -0000
Hi Michael, Thanks for the review and nice words. We noticed that for T2TRG you used wrong address and I now corrected it so that the group can see your mail. We are going to send a detailed reply soon, stay tuned. Regards, Behcet On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 2:38 PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: > > B. Sarikaya, M. Sethi and D. Garcia-Carillo > have done some very good work with > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-sarikaya-t2trg-sbootstrapping-05 > > The intro section deals with "bootstrapping" vs "onboarding", and there is > also the term "enrollment"... > > Section 3 does not mention BRSKI, and it probably should, but you mention > it > in section 4... not sure I understand why. I guess it is a managed method? > > > "Opportunistic and leap-of-faith methods" > > I think that this category should be split up, and distinguish between > methods that are Opportunistic (no memory, no implied trust), those which > are LoF followed by Trust on First Use. > > Additionally, various > online services such as Gmail and Facebook allow anyone to create > a new identity during the initial setup and later only verify the > continuity of the same identity. > > Not sure I understand this, maybe a reference would be worth it. > Since I don't understand it, I don't know if it fits. > > section 4.1 lists a bunch of one-touch (1+) methods as managed, > which I actually find puzzling. I do not consider many of the methods > listed > as enrollment or onboarding methods. (By the (a) defintion of > Introduction) > They are all (b) methods, yet you include BRSKI there. > > [I-D.ietf-netconf-zerotouch] is an RFC8366 based mechanism, similar to > BRSKI, > but using a different set of assumptions about communications, including > none > (USB key). > > 4.2: I'm told that Thread version n+1 uses BRSKI. > > DPP: DPP (Device Provisioning Protocol) [dpp] is a 3 message > authentication protocol currently being standardized by the WiFi > Alliance for devices that rely on IEEE 802.11 link-layer for > communication. The current DPP specification is only aimed at > networks that use WPA2-PSK (also known as WPA2-Home) for network > access authentication. > > I was unaware that it was limited WPA2-PSK networks. I don't think that is > true. Maybe WPA2-PSK type networks are just the sweet spot where it makes > most sense. > > Generally, I really like your section 1,2. > Section 3 could use a bit of work. > > I don't think the survey in section 4 is worthwhile as is. > > What I'd like to see is a clear set of terminology (a la RFC7228) that we > can > subsequently use. Some really clear clarification of what some terms mean. > I don't care if due to clashes with other word uses, we "Property Red", > "RFC89AB-bootstrapping"... (or use Caribean island names or whatever). > > We could stop at that point, and then let the various documents apply the > terminology to themselves. > "According to RFC89AB terminology, BRSKI is has Property Red, and > should be categorized into the set of Jamaican-Zero-Touch protocols" > > I think that getting section 4 nailed down is not very useful in an IETF > or IRTF specification. It will take too long, and might cause arguments > that can't be resolved, even in IETF publication time. > > Instead, write a survey article for a journal (the IETF Journal is always > looking for stuff...) that applies your terminology to various protocols. > > -- > Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > >
- [Iot-onboarding] draft-sarikaya-t2trg-sbootstrapp… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Iot-onboarding] draft-sarikaya-t2trg-sbootst… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [Iot-onboarding] draft-sarikaya-t2trg-sbootst… Behcet Sarikaya