Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03.txt

[Greg Mirsky <[e-mail]>]

Hi Thomas,
thank you for your kind words and support of our work on the precision
availability metrics. You bring up very good points, and I'll follow up
with detailed responses before the winter holidays (the next week is taken
by the BBF meeting). In the meantime, here are some thoughts:

   - I see it beneficial to use terminology defined for IETF Network
   Slicing. We can add text explaining and mapping dictionaries if there are
   differences in interpretation across SDOs.
   - I absolutely agree with your vision that we must develop a YANG
   model(s) that can configure, maintain, and operate PAM-based policies for
   communication services (using a bit of 3GPP terminology). This is
   identified as the work item for the future. How far away is it? It can be
   started as the PAM document progresses.

Best regards,
Greg

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 8:13 AM <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Dear Greg,
>
>
>
> First of all, thank you very much for picking up this important topic. I
> think this is very valuable.
>
>
>
> I would welcome the distinction between the SRE terms SLI (Service Level
> Indicator) and SLO (Service Level Objective) and apply the SLI to both
> packet loss and delay for a specific flow.
>
>
>
> To my understanding, section 3.1 (
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam#section-3.1)
> describes the SLI. Defining the upper and lower bounds of the bucketing for
> VI and SVI.
>
>
>
> For the SLO definition, what is missing is the burn rate which defines the
> time range and the VI / SVI count. The notification should not immediately
> happen at every VI and SVI violation, it should happen with a delay when
> the VI / SVI burn rate is violated. That delay can be defined for different
> criticality.
>
>
>
> For the semantics I suggest to be guided, inspired by OpenSLO (
> https://openslo.com/, https://github.com/openslo/openslo). This is widely
> adopted in the industry already.
>
>
>
> Regarding section 6. In my opinion, the end goal of this document should
> be that an SLO and SLI for a network service intent (
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc9316#section-6.2) is defined in
> a YANG module and the SLI can be applied to a flow, which is actively being
> generated and measured by a probe or the flow is passively/hybrid being
> measured by a transit node. I gladly contribute to the document and I am
> looking forward to the working group adoption.
>
>
>
> From a data mesh architecture (https://www.datamesh-architecture.com/)
> perspective, the delay and loss measured measurements are operational
> metrics. The SLI, VI and SVI count, are analytical metrics.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
> *From:* ippm <[e-mail]> *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky
> *Sent:* Monday, November 7, 2022 12:21 PM
> *To:* IETF IPPM WG <[e-mail]>; IPPM Chairs <[e-mail]>
> *Cc:* TEAS WG <[e-mail]>
> *Subject:* [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for
> draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03.txt
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> as we were suggested by the IPPM WG Chairs, the new version of the
> Precision Availability Metrics draft includes updates addressing comments
> received in the course of the IPPM WG AP.
>
>
>
> The authors allways welcome and greatly appreciate your comments,
> questions, and suggestions.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Greg (on behalf of the Authors)
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 11:17 AM
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03.txt
> To: Alexander Clemm <[e-mail]>, Greg Mirsky <[e-mail]>,
> Jerome Francois <[e-mail]>, Joel Halpern <
> [e-mail]>, John Strassner <[e-mail]>, Xiao Min
> <[e-mail]>
>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam
> Revision:       03
> Title:          Precision Availability Metrics for SLO-Governed End-to-End
> Services
> Document date:  2022-11-07
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          13
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03.txt
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03.txt&data=05%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40swisscom.com%7Cfacd9acfdd554eb0774908dac0b23c2c%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C638034168986274458%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=i6ShlP4%2BwmWjF%2BOvpBdvIqi%2BaYmsMkwxY7JagVTdi0w%3D&reserved=0>
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam/
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam%2F&data=05%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40swisscom.com%7Cfacd9acfdd554eb0774908dac0b23c2c%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C638034168986274458%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VABNSiq1TR8VpWx1YvWATSi%2Bq3dMSvM3fBc2XRlQgC4%3D&reserved=0>
> Html:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03.html
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03.html&data=05%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40swisscom.com%7Cfacd9acfdd554eb0774908dac0b23c2c%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C638034168986274458%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ctky0fyed2kWOp3i5ijv%2FfTbxX9tvTnTCmWYbyZZ3rk%3D&reserved=0>
> Htmlized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam
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> Diff:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-03&data=05%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40swisscom.com%7Cfacd9acfdd554eb0774908dac0b23c2c%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C638034168986274458%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SdfxkMR13q0ix%2FNZde5gBYc5uTJmR%2B3Er0NjAfOi%2Few%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Abstract:
>    This document defines a set of metrics for networking services with
>    performance requirements expressed as Service Level Objectives (SLO).
>    These metrics, referred to as Precision Availability Metrics (PAM),
>    are useful for defining and monitoring of SLOs.  Specifically, PAM
>    can be used by providers and/or users of the Network Slice service to
>    assess whether the service is provided in compliance with its
>    specified quality, i.e., in accordance with its defined SLOs.
>
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>