[ippm] Reordering drafts
Henk Uijterwaal <henk@ripe.net> Wed, 21 December 2005 14:15 UTC
Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ep4kj-0002OK-Uv; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:15:37 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ep4kh-0002No-ND for ippm@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:15:35 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17847 for <ippm@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:14:31 -0500 (EST)
Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ep4nK-0006J3-V9 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:18:19 -0500
Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id D568F24246; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:15:09 +0100 (CET)
Received: from cod.ripe.net (cod.ripe.net [193.0.1.202]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F5F23F73; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:15:06 +0100 (CET)
Received: from Geir.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by cod.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D091726A3; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:15:06 +0100 (CET)
Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051221151008.02c934a0@localhost>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:14:45 +0100
To: ippm@ietf.org, Matthew J Zekauskas <matt@internet2.edu>, mankin@psg.com
From: Henk Uijterwaal <henk@ripe.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00
X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000070 / -5.9
X-RIPE-Signature: fd43767ac8e7aa8b14039d624e093bea
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: b5d20af10c334b36874c0264b10f59f1
Cc:
Subject: [ippm] Reordering drafts
X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group <ippm.ietf.org >
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm>, <mailto:ippm-request@ietf.org ?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ippm@ietf.org >
List-Help: <mailto:ippm-request@ietf.org ?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm>, <mailto:ippm-request@ietf.org ?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org
IPPM Group The WG has been discussing reordering since (at least) the London IETF in 2001. A metric was proposed at this meeting. At the Salt Lake City IETF in the same year, 3 more metrics were proposed. Drafts were published at the IETF53 (March 2002). These were later merged into one document, draft-ietf-ippm-reordering (mid 2002). This document was adopted by the WG as a group document. We will refer to this draft as the group draft. In parallel, a group from Colorado State University (CSU) started to work on another metric. This resulted in a individual submission draft (draft-jayasumana-reorder-density, with the first version from 2003). We will refer to this draft as the CSU draft. There appear to be 3 issues with these drafts. 1. Contents. The authors of the second draft claim that the group draft does not describe suitable metrics for measuring reordering. They have made their argument at several meetings and in postings, the latest one is http://www.cnrl.colostate.edu/Reorder/compmetrics_for_ietf.pdf. In our judgement, they seem to be alone in their opinion. The group draft been actively reviewed by at least 10 people in the group and has been in its current state for at least a year (except for minor changes in wording and clarifications). In short, we believe that this draft meets the "rough consensus" guideline, even though we recognize that the CSU folks disagree with the draft. 2. Origin of the byte-offset metrics. In parallel, the CSU group also claims that this metric has been derived from their Reorder Buffer Density metric. We seriously doubt the validity of this claim. The ideas behind the group draft were discussed in 2001-2002 and the CSU draft is from a later date. Also, at least one of the authors of the CSU draft participated in the early discussions on the group draft. 3-4 years after the discussion, it is of course impossible to say who exactly made which point in these discussions. We also find it strange that this claim comes up years after the fact. A more extensive analysis of this issue can be found at http://people.internet2.edu/~matt/IPPM/Reordering/PiratlaCommented.html 3. Should the CSU draft become a WG document? The CSU group has repeatedly asked the WG to adopt their document as a WG document. So far, there has been no support for this, either on the mailing list or in any of the meetings where the topic was discussed. While we acknowledge the work done by the CSU group, we believe that there is currently no support or interest from the WG for the CSU draft. Next steps: * The group draft has been stable for a year and the majority of the WG supports it. We therefor propose to declare "rough consensus", do a WGLC and move the document forward. * We will add a stable reference to the CSU draft in the group draft. * We propose that the WG will not pick up the CSU draft as a WG document, as there seems to be no support for this. Our position has been communicated to the AD. We will make our final decision in about 2 weeks time. Please raise any points that you might have on the above on the list before January 3, 2006. Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look here junior, don't you be so happy. And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad. (Tom Verlaine) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1160438400. Watch this space... _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
- [ippm] Reordering drafts Henk Uijterwaal
- RE: [ippm] Reordering drafts Nischal M Piratla
- Re: [ippm] Reordering drafts Mark Allman
- Re: [ippm] Reordering drafts Al Morton
- Re: [ippm] Reordering drafts Mark Allman
- Re: [ippm] Reordering drafts Al Morton
- Re: [ippm] Reordering drafts Henk Uijterwaal
- Re: [ippm] Reordering drafts Mark Allman
- Re: [ippm] Reordering drafts Henk Uijterwaal