Re: [TLS] Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-authz-extns (fwd)
Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com> Sat, 29 September 2007 03:37 UTC
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:36:51 -0400
From: Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com>
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Cc: ietf@ietf.org, Brad Hards <bradh@frogmouth.net>, Tim Polk <tim.polk@nist.gov>, tls@ietf.org, ipr-wg@ietf.org, Eric Rescorla <ekr@networkresonance.com>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-authz-extns (fwd)
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Oops. This got out before it was fully edited. On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 2007-09-29 08:58, Eric Rescorla wrote: > ... > >> After the fraud > >> by Housley was discovered, > > I don't know who wrote this libel that Eric replied to > (apparently it was someone whose email gets magically deleted > before it reaches me), Yet another petty lie. Carpenter edited my name out of Rescorla's message. Carpenter can killfile anyone he wants; advertising that here just an ad hominem attack. An ad hominem has 2 elements: personal and irrelevant. It is irrelevant who is in Carpenter's killfile. By contrast, complaint of official misconduct is not an ad hominem because it is relevant to proper official conduct. However, I haven't libeled anyone: Truth is an absolute defense to libel. Fortunately, the law gives a definition of actionable fraud and that definition states the necessary elements: The essential elements are representation, falsity, scienter, deception, reliance, and injury. All of those elements are present. See http://www.av8.net/IETF-watch/People/Housley/index.html > but I would like to remind people that the late IPR disclosure in this > case had nothing whatever to do with Russ Housley. A less petty lie, but still not true. Brown has said it was all Brown's fault. But Brown's claim isn't credible. Housley admits he knew through all 7 versions that an undisclosed patent existed, and it was Housley that produced all 7 drafts that contained mis-statements of fact. Housley wasn't misled by Brown; Housley and Brown misled the IETF. > Sorry about the excessive cross-posting, but it does seem necessary > to correct libels. Being falsely accused of fraud seems to be an > occupational hazard for IETF Chairs, but that doesn't mean it > should go unrefuted. Its less an occupational hazard if the Chair's were actually honest, and there wasn't such overflowing evidence of unsavory activities. What Carpenter has omitted (by pretending not to know who made the accusation) is that Carpenter committed misconduct against me (Anderson), by (at least) falsely reporting a consensus in a PR-action against me. Carpenter, then IETF chair, was responsible for a false report to the IAB that there was a consensus approving the PR-action. In fact, the consensus was against the PR-action: 15 out of 17 people who responded indicated they were against the PR-action. http://www.av8.net/IETF-watch/IESG/IESG-PR-discussion.html The IAB was apparently told that there was less than 10 messages on the IETF list. Though, even that is still not a consensus! [See section 5.4 of http://www.iab.org/appeals/2006-07-13-anderson-response.html] Incidentally, it also turns out the PR-action is contrary to the law governing corporations (the IETF is an activity of the ISOC, a US corporation): under the law, without a bylaw on suspension or expulsion, a corporation cannot suspend or expel a member without a vote of the membership. The ISOC has no such bylaw, and no vote of the membership was held. There are some other conditions that also weren't met. Carpenter, while still IETF chair, was informed of this, but he apparently has no respect for the law. http://www.av8.net/IETF-watch/Suspension_and_Expulsion_Requirements.pdf (it wouldn't matter if the IETF weren't part of the ISOC. Essentialy the same rules apply to unincorporated associations and clubs) There were loads of other problems, not the least of which was the fact that none of the messages that Carpenter/Kessens/Crocker complained about were in the least way abusive. As you might guess, money was the motive behind the false charges, and silencing criticism was a way to continue to make money with the IETF. What is libelous is false charges of misconduct, as in the false charges contained in the PR-action. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ Ipr-wg mailing list Ipr-wg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg
- Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-authz-extns Dean Anderson
- Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-authz-extns Dean Anderson
- Re: [TLS] Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-authz-extns Dean Anderson
- Re: [TLS] Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-… Dean Anderson
- Re: [TLS] Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-… Dean Anderson
- Re: [TLS] Re: Third Last Call: draft-housley-tls-… Eric Rescorla