Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) for Stage 4 of the PAKE selection process
Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org> Fri, 30 August 2019 07:11 UTC
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:11:28 -0700
From: Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org>
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Subject: Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) for Stage 4 of the PAKE selection process
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On 8/29/19 5:11 PM, Tero Kivinen wrote: > [removed cfrg from CC, as I do not think this issue really belongs > there as we are discussing IKE signaling here]. > > Dan Harkins writes: >> First of all this suggestion is for a particular PAKE and I'm not >> suggesting that any of the other candidates would slide in so effortlessly. >> In fact an augmented PAKE is, IMHO, not suitable for a protocol like IKE >> where either side can initiate. The PAKE I'm describing here is SPEKE, >> a balance PAKE. >> >> SPEKE does a simple Diffie-Hellman but uses a secret generator that is >> deterministically obtained from the password. This technique is basically >> one of the hash-to-curve functions from the CFRG's hash-to-curve I-D >> or a simple hashing and exponentiation for MODP groups. All this happens >> at password provisioning time prior to IKE being run. >> >> Then when IKE is run the secret generator for the negotiated group is >> used to do the D-H, the IKE_SA_INIT exchange is basically SPEKE. The >> result is, if they both have the same generator (which means they had the >> same password), an authenticated shared secret. This secret is verified in >> the IKE_AUTH exchange. > How does the responder know which of the one million username password > pairs to pick to generate the generator when calculating D-H in the > IKE_SA_INIT? The actual identity of the user is only sent in the > encrypted IKE_AUTH message. > > I.e., I think this has exactly same problem than IKEv1 has with > pre-shared keys for main mode. You must know the initiator identity > based on the IP-addresses, thus makes this completely unusable for > non static VPN cases. HA! I did miss something :-) Yes, I guess a new payload is needed to express the username. This can be added to the IKE_SA_INIT message. Or maybe it can be a special type of NOTIFY, that's a six-of-one-and-a-half-dozen-of-the-other issue. But this should not involve an extra Auth exchange (as the framework PAKEs do) since SPEKE is just a Diffie-Hellman exchange which is exactly what IKE is. regards, Dan. >> This would require a new Auth Method defined for SPEKE/PAKE to indicate >> that the SPEKE shared secret is used. And that should be all that's needed. >> It should be that simple. The protocol shouldn't have to change, no new >> messages, no new payloads, no new nuthin. If I'm missing something please >> let me know.
- [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) for … Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Michael Richardson
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Tero Kivinen
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Tero Kivinen
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Paul Wouters
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Paul Wouters
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Paul Wouters
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] Call for independent experts (IKEv2) … Valery Smyslov