Re: [IPsec] IPR statement for draft-detienne-ikev2-recovery

Pratima Sethi <> Tue, 23 March 2010 12:23 UTC

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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:49:27 +0530
From: Pratima Sethi <>
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To: Yaron Sheffer <>
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Cc: IPsecme WG <>, Frederic Detienne <>, Paul Hoffman <>
Subject: Re: [IPsec] IPR statement for draft-detienne-ikev2-recovery
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Hi Yaron,

thanks for clarifying the situation.

The overall disclosure process still somewhat escaped us and we were 
unclear as to when such statements need to be published.

If we made a mistake, I hereby apologize; we know better now.

We mainly wanted to clear our names of any malicious intent. I am glad 
that memory has been restored.

- prati

On 3/22/2010 9:06 PM, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
> Hi Frederic,
> this is correct, however we did not share this information because it 
> was an individual submission at the time, and we expected Cisco to do 
> the right thing, i.e. to inform the WG in a timely manner (and later, 
> we simply forgot).
> For some reason, Cisco chose to publish the IPR statement more than a 
> year after the application was published by the patent office. It was 
> Cisco's responsibility, and your personal responsibility, to follow 
> IETF due process here.
> Thanks,
>     Yaron
> On 22.3.2010 17:16, Frederic Detienne wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> I am still puzzled that you see fit to check in private with Yoav and 
>> in public with us.
>> For the records, at least one of the co-chairs (Yaron) was advised 
>> about the IPR at the same time as Yoav.
>> regards,
>>     fred
>> On 22 Mar 2010, at 15:09, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>> At 9:51 AM +0100 3/22/10, Frederic Detienne wrote:
>>>> I am afraid you are mistaken. Yoav, Yaron, Pratima and I had a 
>>>> discussion about the draft's IPR back in Dublin in July 2008. We 
>>>> told back then that we would have rights released. The process 
>>>> takes its own time but as far as Pratima and I are concerned, we 
>>>> did due diligence.
>>> Thank you.
>>>> Will you share your assumptions directly with us next time ?
>>> As WG co-chair, I need to trust the words and intentions of active 
>>> WG contributors as much as I can. When the Cisco IPR statement for 
>>> SIR came out, I was surprised, so I asked your co-author, Yoav Nir, 
>>> about whether he had known about it. His response was that he had 
>>> not known about it until after Cisco's recent IPR statement. I took 
>>> him at his word.
>>> To be clear: this is not a matter of which one of you is telling the 
>>> truth. It is quite easy that one of you misunderstood the other 
>>> because the discussion of SIR and QCD had gotten mixed up with the 
>>> discussion of session resumption and maybe-related topics. There is, 
>>> I believe, a chance that you told *me* about the pending patent and 
>>> I forgot. I doubt that, but I also admit to having prejudices about 
>>> IPR and so on that would cause me to have less-than-perfect memory. 
>>> I cut you and Yoav the same slack I cut myself.
>>> To be clear, part 2: the patent situation with SIR has not affected 
>>> the WG's decision yet. There are plenty of companies whose generic 
>>> IETF patent licenses are similar to those offered by Cisco for SIR. 
>>> That is why my message to the WG informing them of Cisco's IPR 
>>> statement said "Before reacting to this announcement, please review 
>>> the IETF's IPR policy". Knee-jerk reactions to IPR statements can 
>>> cause more damage in the IETF than IPR statements themselves.
>>> I still stand by my statement that I would have preferred Cisco to 
>>> issue the statement when we were discussing listing SIR in the 
>>> charter in this current round: more information is always good. I 
>>> apologize for saying "at least one of the co-authors on the named 
>>> draft was not informed of the IPR"; I could have said "I have heard 
>>> that at least one of the co-authors on the named draft was not 
>>> informed of the IPR", which is a more accurate statement.
>>> --Paul Hoffman, Director
>>> --VPN Consortium
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