[IPsec] Re: IPSEC and packet reordering
Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Tue, 24 March 2026 09:15 UTC
Return-Path: <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: ipsec@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ipsec@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34707D08BFA8 for <ipsec@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2026 02:15:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a_Nrz6cIvfy1 for <ipsec@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2026 02:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from OSPPR02CU001.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-norwayeastazon11013050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.159.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AAF2D08BF9B for <ipsec@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Mar 2026 02:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=w4p1iZ0cKlMBFve9mz3tnOn5qNR6bBuKdlDS9CmZN8KUHusUf39K/iQhUm4SfZo9qXCZzSqKylZ11JrrAs96RBMYOnAlewZpRL5Q+6dfIj74v6I4dUemnPDbhjgBpw+gtsw4CWjCi4e9a+2g6OXOwNJJNxidXdPy1YCX/fybsew7uwPTgUTk8P+EQ9DiKHO3KsyhULV66n7RHT13Z15AFK+tPM+lmYwVzCl55M85Ui0wJFFzTHYLPrPkq7ezk6mkZKp9yx45FQalAFoYVDYYXY1ZX4keo9DCV7DGD86tOln+x/su7B8I213vpfg3gF0jvfpGf/OQCQ5B/qmynyG6PA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=VAos/3RYhm6RkSwm6DjenlPjxFXcv5Bo+eTarExaxYU=; b=BTnThkiqWYdNaxMe9ix5hZjbzH2mQaZ+d0LuqUfCFsIC+mPbW2VOzfSuwMPCp1vH5tHZH2R8h1igoEVdVZYRzir3vRj5qxV7WNW3G5+mboPA014bHtMj2cu94wPhOigflMZSUAr2lHl37Qj/KjDnpd+TCLHaat1ZAvhW3qASXvLpmwaUqyfSNTPzdXKWwNCWI0tYuUtGtPngqrUZ7a7WzI7wVI5PwFYN/uNuraqy3RArhxMxe8BySWQ8O6xMJWBg3U6SSuiQh0nLU1LsplAZaju6EmU5V0hyOORmHhDQVkjYFneMBKVLub16nPnP5Mi/NMeS1ySHnqNKg8T8wUo5bA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com; dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=VAos/3RYhm6RkSwm6DjenlPjxFXcv5Bo+eTarExaxYU=; b=vHN8DIw+ownASKpCcgL5MmI9MxSmF1QRaXS7F8Wy5rWeFkCq4+ILFWVxkTmReujO+WL1pAvdcbb5QStAKCCCijBXDYCuPfjMkOoK9f7W5NEJmouhy8fo6aTq83DjteZkz5Ka1xqY/uI91N9M6qGZfwD7xnk8MVTpAR9rksIzKQO0rR4sJA0qgKNPy2NeeNszhv96P+SfnEXhJmutoheq8/V7kbumBY1Jf35qwvEXFfCLMOO3NqNV7DMCEu3PFPwPmuqQsZlK6aX1ri9iKNljZJF2j8BZNZoMBg9iLD5ILei+tx+KtTZ+Z4O2biJMhcwxeplMYda0Lr29W54mpfd6Og==
Received: from AM8PR07MB8137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:36c::18) by AS8PR07MB9463.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:63a::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.9723.29; Tue, 24 Mar 2026 09:15:19 +0000
Received: from AM8PR07MB8137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ac3:5402:b26f:c15d]) by AM8PR07MB8137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ac3:5402:b26f:c15d%4]) with mapi id 15.20.9723.030; Tue, 24 Mar 2026 09:15:19 +0000
From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: "ipsec@ietf.org" <ipsec@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Re : IPSEC and packet reordering
Thread-Index: Adysei8iPlRntzc5TiKy/0KVkBEdZAO823Uw
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2026 09:15:19 +0000
Message-ID: <AM8PR07MB81377B41AF7773E143C50CC7C248A@AM8PR07MB8137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM8PR07MB81378DB1A249E713C72BB4A3C27DA@AM8PR07MB8137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <AM8PR07MB81378DB1A249E713C72BB4A3C27DA@AM8PR07MB8137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM8PR07MB8137:EE_|AS8PR07MB9463:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cace95a7-1c84-4b4e-3e93-08de8985deb5
x-ld-processed: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f,ExtAddr
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|1800799024|366016|376014|6049299003|8096899003|13003099007|4053099003|4013099003|38070700021|7053199007|56012099003|18002099003|22082099003;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:AM8PR07MB8137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(1800799024)(366016)(376014)(6049299003)(8096899003)(13003099007)(4053099003)(4013099003)(38070700021)(7053199007)(56012099003)(18002099003)(22082099003);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg="2.16.840.1.101.3.4.2.1"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0561_01DCBB77.1CF67B10"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM8PR07MB8137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cace95a7-1c84-4b4e-3e93-08de8985deb5
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Mar 2026 09:15:19.3234 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: aeNFoxXkjH165Q7IL1FDE/AXqi+n8m4RE6LXQOZxyKdYHJHtnFeYLfKXA1/0mpWhkdBRXnWERyw97CKOlOvn01/PcWlAIJYRecAR7THeYqPAAUkY4p9PRVF2zx9kYqY5
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AS8PR07MB9463
Message-ID-Hash: 37FT3ZJSJNVFCGK5MNVLDUM7VIVAKI2M
X-Message-ID-Hash: 37FT3ZJSJNVFCGK5MNVLDUM7VIVAKI2M
X-MailFrom: ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ipsec.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: Greg White <g.white@cablelabs.com>, Chris Box <chris.box@bt.com>, "chris.box.ietf@gmail.com" <chris.box.ietf@gmail.com>, "dibakar.das@intel.com" <dibakar.das@intel.com>, "Dmitry.Akhmetov@intel.com" <dmitry.akhmetov@intel.com>, Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [IPsec] Re: IPSEC and packet reordering
List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols <ipsec.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipsec/viftd7kCNZjZZJZB6lKSlf-z2Gw>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipsec>
List-Help: <mailto:ipsec-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ipsec-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ipsec@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ipsec-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ipsec-leave@ietf.org>
Hi I try and post this again. I think that we have a fairly good understanding about the implications of out of sequence delivery on the transport protocol level. What is lacking is an understanding on how IP Sec can handle out of sequence delivery and what the pain limits are. So any kind of input that helps us advance the https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-white-intarea-reordering/ draft is welcome. Regards Ingemar From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Sent: Thursday, 5 March 2026 10:40 To: ipsec@ietf.org Cc: Greg White <g.white@cablelabs.com>; Chris Box <chris.box@bt.com>; chris.box.ietf@gmail.com; dibakar.das@intel.com; Dmitry.Akhmetov@intel.com; Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Subject: Re : IPSEC and packet reordering Hi I re-listened in on the presentation by Chris Box at the IPSECME session at IETF-124 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwfypFEEcYY <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwfypFEEcYY&t=6866s> &t=6866s The title was “Proposal for updates to Guidance on Packet Reordering”, with the accompanying IETF draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-white-intarea-reordering/ The topic of packet reordering has recently been brought up in the 3GPP RAN2 working group where HoL blocking due to link layer retransmission and and resequencing in 3GPP is seen as an issue. https://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ran/WG2_RL2/TSGR2_133/Docs/R2-2600101.zip Removing or modifying the resequencing in cellular networks would remedy the issue presented in the document. The question is how IPSEC in particular would manage this ?. The discussion at the end of the IPSECME session gave some insight but I am not sure that it gave any conclusive message. So please comment on what can be recommended/tolelated in terms of packet reordering from an IP SEC perspective. Regards Ingemar + other authors of draft-white-intarea-reordering ================================= Ingemar Johansson M.Sc. Master Researcher Ericsson Research GFTL ER NAP NCM Netw Proto & E2E Perf Laboratoriegränd 11 977 53, Luleå, Sweden +46-73 078 3289 <mailto:ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com <http://www.ericsson.com/> Experience is merely the name men gave to their mistakes. Oscar Wilde =================================
- [IPsec] Re: IPSEC and packet reordering Ingemar Johansson S
- [IPsec] Re: IPSEC and packet reordering Ingemar Johansson S
- [IPsec] Re: IPSEC and packet reordering Koning, Paul
- [IPsec] Re: IPSEC and packet reordering Ingemar Johansson S