Re: Confirm consensus to adopt draft-hinden-6man-mtu-option

Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com> Mon, 05 August 2019 15:03 UTC

Return-Path: <pch-b9D3CB0F5@u-1.phicoh.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55AD5120236; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 08:03:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Quarantine-ID: <JK8eU3_cZeOB>
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "Cc"
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JK8eU3_cZeOB; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 08:03:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from stereo.hq.phicoh.net (stereo6-tun.hq.phicoh.net [IPv6:2001:888:1044:10:2a0:c9ff:fe9f:17a9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40F5A120232; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 08:03:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from stereo.hq.phicoh.net (localhost [::ffff:127.0.0.1]) by stereo.hq.phicoh.net with esmtp (TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) (Smail #157) id m1hueWQ-0000LOC; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:03:38 +0200
Message-Id: <m1hueWQ-0000LOC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net>
To: ipv6@ietf.org
Cc: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Confirm consensus to adopt draft-hinden-6man-mtu-option
From: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com>
Sender: pch-b9D3CB0F5@u-1.phicoh.com
References: <2268E842-37F5-4439-8711-573D23055073@employees.org> <91310357-fc62-f218-ce93-3ade0f2aea9a@foobar.org> <CALx6S35-HFZuu7g7vr7RumMyNrFnE1dqvL+_AaoW4OL7wOKqUg@mail.gmail.com> <b58987ab-0059-9f7e-98e0-e5cdd16d5f5a@foobar.org> <CALx6S367fYRvfyD3E+zCSp8ytSq91bwfXDKcTg8SfeYJXh9V6A@mail.gmail.com> <bb42ae27-8a08-d662-ca9b-56095fe1d2c3@foobar.org> <30326a1a81cc4ffab662b164efc0b268@boeing.com> <m1htZRa-0000IZC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <CALx6S37F=s_N6EAgo8Ro6-Wy3NSF1GsR=jZcLgvE+vzcHbkHxw@mail.gmail.com>
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 2 Aug 2019 09:06:29 -0700 ." <CALx6S37F=s_N6EAgo8Ro6-Wy3NSF1GsR=jZcLgvE+vzcHbkHxw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 17:03:36 +0200
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/jzyG6l536ANzF0-n4LoMEI46xz8>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 15:03:46 -0000

> The only "right thing" we need routers on the Internet to do is
> too ignore HBH EH instead of dropping packets with them or relegating
> packets to some slow path. 

First, there is an obvious deployment problem. It is not attractive for
hosts to send HBH EHs if they get dropped on a large percentage of the 
paths. In the short run this will seriously complicate host processing.
In addition to ICMPs, there will be dropped EHs, ignored EHs, and remote 
hosts that don't know what to do.

At the same time, it is very costly to build fast path processing for HBH EHs
(assuming there is none at the moment) only to support some future internet
where everybody will support this option.

And then we can safely assume that some percentage of paths, so 5% or 10%
will continue to do the wrong thing. There is no way you can get this in
every last firewall.

That said, if we find a way to define this for PMTUs >> 1500, then it is
easier to say it will only work if all devices on the path support it.

Note that there is also
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-van-beijnum-multi-mtu-04.txt
to deal with the lack of support for >1500 by IEEE.