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Re: Mirja Kühlewind's Discuss on draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 21 April 2017 23:18 UTC

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Subject: Re: Mirja Kühlewind's Discuss on draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
References: <149201127005.15808.3277140025315157500.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <A5628A89-3830-4851-87F1-AE8329597DAE@gmail.com> <58B249A0-2F0B-4AD6-890D-BB0F0594DEE1@kuehlewind.net> <0c7d3a7b-99c9-dbef-d6cc-9a4a94cb9c9f@gmail.com> <4AE56E75-78D4-43EA-8118-8195FD8A3D08@kuehlewind.net> <4fc2ef36-cd17-58f1-8089-a5645f08ad45@gmail.com> <D7EE44C3-04DB-4CFD-836F-2BFA74A35268@employees.org> <90DFC565-B4E7-45E2-BE6A-0B67895E87F8@gmail.com> <CA+MHpBr7aeuyd8h5n6U6Q4jD_gtLCKsPJUgQqQuhgkEE3DGwqg@mail.gmail.com> <D41A10C3-74D4-45EE-8161-C344CB30329A@kuehlewind.net> <5E28EF66-7BE1-4F11-88F3-6D928870A9FE@kuehlewind.net> <616cb74d-cc15-6c26-cb1d-612dfcddd353@gmail.com> <99E119A3-4BEA-4EE4-9DC1-7B434CAAE016@kuehlewind.net> <8EF4BCDA-ADB9-4EF4-A873-95CA67C6D7F3@employees.org> <8d127de1-a1b6-8406-c234-192fcbf01ad4@si6networks.com> <65C701D2-A0FF-40E5-B88D-E2E9C7260E02@gmail.com> <edd7faca-629a-6c0c-0c3a-2342dbe60d79@gmail.com> <53D314DF-2C83-4837-A9D2-AB776231BADC@cisco.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, "draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis@ietf.org>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" <ietf@kuehlewind.net>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "6man-chairs@ietf.org" <6man-chairs@ietf.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
Message-ID: <86222e93-146b-3532-640a-c31fa4eceee2@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 11:18:20 +1200
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On 21/04/2017 20:21, Stefano Previdi (sprevidi) wrote:
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 10:22 PM, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 21/04/2017 03:47, Bob Hinden wrote:
>>> Fernando,
>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:01 AM, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ….
>>>>>
>>>>> Dropping unknown extension headers in transit networks is relatively
>>>>> rare. With the HBH being an exception, with almost a 40% drop. (Note
>>>>> that there are no HBH option that would make a lot of sense across
>>>>> the Internet, so again chicken and egg.)
>>>>
>>>> Based on RFC7872 ("Observations on the Dropping of Packets with IPv6
>>>> Extension Headers in the Real World"), your statement is incorrect.
>>>>
>>>> Transit routers do filter packets with EHs, whether known or unknown.
>>>
>>> I think this confirms that the current text which recommends against defining new EH is correct.
>>
>> Hate to say it, but yes, IMHO that was a clear WG consensus and I don't think
>> the IESG has the right to override it.
> 
> 
> well, there’s been another WG consensus that has been overridden by IESG so what’s the algorithm exactly ?

It's fine if IESG review raises an issue and the WG agrees to the suggested change. But in this case I don't personally see any change in the WG's collective opinion. See the first two bullets at
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html

(Full disclosure: I was IETF Chair when those criteria were agreed and published.)

    Brian

>>
>> On 21/04/2017 05:09, Stefano Previdi (sprevidi) wrote:
>> ...
>>> Definition of new EHs must be done carefully but I don’t see why it should be prevented,
>>
>> which is exactly why the consensus is *not recommended* rather than *must not*.
>> Even without formally using RFC2119, the distinction is clear.
>>
>> Why are we re-litigating this?
>>
>> On 21/04/2017 06:54, otroan@employees.org wrote:
>> ...
>>> I do not think a drop rate in the area of 2.5% warrants:
>>> "today's routers are highly likely to drop packets with unknown headers".
>>
>> That's beside the point for 2460bis. The point is that unknown EHs are dropped
>> on *some* paths, which makes deploying them tricky, regardless of the percentage.
>>
>>    Brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    Brian
>>
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>

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