Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side meeting at IETF 115
Sampo Syreeni <decoy@iki.fi> Mon, 07 November 2022 21:06 UTC
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Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2022 23:06:44 +0200
From: Sampo Syreeni <decoy@iki.fi>
To: Buday Gergely <buday.gergely.istvan=40uni-mate.hu@dmarc.ietf.org>
cc: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>, irtf-discuss@irtf.org, 115attendees@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side meeting at IETF 115
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On 2022-11-06, Buday Gergely wrote: > Formal methods is a broad term, what did people actually suggest? I'd argue the first thing to do would be to find out which form of temporal logic covers every extant IETF protocol. How to marry that then with a formal language able to carry all of the data formats used. Once you have those, you have a framework at least capable of describing what we already have. What you have might not be ideal for formal methods use. It might surface reasoning with all of that would not be efficient. Or your framework might not align with any current reasoning software. But still, it would constitute a formal defition, at least amenable to *some* formal work. Which is more than what we have now. > Model checking has a long track record of verifying protocols, > especially the Spin model checker by Gerald Holzmann. So, maybe its input language/formalism? [...] > I think English should augment formal specifications as it could > ignite debate whether the formalisation is correct and unambigous. Here I'd go more with the literal programming idea, and coloring your statements with comments. Because if you really formalized your protocol fully, so that the formal description really is whole and binding, there is no need for debate. It just is or isn't valid. As such English (why not other languages) simply serve to explain to a human, what the intended semantics of the protocol and its data formats are meant to be. -- Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - decoy@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front +358-40-3751464, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
- [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side meeting… Colin Perkins
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Ross Finlayson
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Colin Perkins
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Colin Perkins
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Colin Perkins
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Buday Gergely
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Buday Gergely
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Sampo Syreeni
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Sampo Syreeni
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Sampo Syreeni
- Re: [irtf-discuss] Usable formal methods side mee… Buday Gergely
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Jonathan Hoyland
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Colin Perkins
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Colin Perkins
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Nicola Rustignoli
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Sampo Syreeni
- Re: [irtf-discuss] [115attendees] Usable formal m… Jonathan Hoyland