Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09.txt

[Charlie Perkins <[e-mail]>]

Hello Paul,

I have reviewed the document.  I think it still needs some improvements 
as described below.

- It is not at all clear to me why a multi-link subnet model is better 
than simply a routing protocol between moving networks.

- The discussions about DNS need better motivation.

- I had asked for a more detailed analysis about the timing requirements 
and latency bounds.  The inclusion of numbers like 1 second, .5 second, 
and 500ms is not at all convincing, especially without citations.  Given 
some knowledge of DSRC range and typical speeds for motor vehicles, you 
should be able to get better numbers by some basic arithmetic.

- The Security Considerations needs to be significantly expanded, with 
cross references to other parts of the document.

- The "Changes" section should have detailed what was changed, instead 
of just saying that resolutions were included for our comments.

- I am not sure whether or not you intended to have a specific global 
prefix range (e.g., 2001:DB8:) set aside for VANETs.  I think this would 
be a bad idea.  Any routable IPv6 address ought to be routable in a VANET.

- In section 5.1, you might cite 
draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems, our draft that discusses 
various kinds of problems faced by multicast-based protocols over 
wireless media.

- In section 5.1.1, it is suggested that two separate VANETs can merge 
into one network.  An example is needed for this.

- In section 5.3, the discussion indicates that malicious actions should 
be prevented by cooperation between good nodes.  But no suggestion is 
made about how to distinguish good nodes from bad nodes, or how to 
reduce the likelihood that a good node might be misused by a malicious 
operator, or be compromised.  Similarly, it is not suggested how to 
identify authorized vehicles.

Regards,
Charlie P.


On 7/4/2019 9:32 PM, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong wrote:
> Charlie,
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Best Regards,
> Paul
>
> 2019년 7월 5일 (금) 오후 12:10, Charlie Perkins 
> <[e-mail] 
> <mailto:[e-mail]>>님이 작성:
>
>     Hello Paul,
>
>
>     It's on my list to read tomorrow.
>
>
>     Regards,
>     Charlie P.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, July 4, 2019 4:36:26 AM
>     *To:* Charlie Perkins
>     *Cc:* Charles E. Perkins; CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO; Russ
>     Housley; Sri Gundavelli
>     *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] I-D Action:
>     draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09.txt
>     Hi Charlie,
>     Did you have a chance to review our IPWAVE PS draft?
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09
>     <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247361380&sdata=ZiUV934DN3GZyKITtLNmcytBaAvC3Hl4rkoB679FT9k%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>     Please let me know whether you are satisfied with the current
>     version or not.
>
>     I believe that I addresses all your previous comments
>     even though the current version is a compact one focusing on the
>     problems for IPWAVE.
>
>     Thanks.
>
>     Best Regards,
>     Paul
>
>     On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 7:07 AM CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO
>     <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>         I’ll wait until Charlie reviews it to do my review.
>
>         Thanks!
>
>         Carlos
>
>         On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 at 04:14, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
>         <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>             Charlie,
>             Thanks a lot.
>
>             Best Regards,
>             Paul
>
>             2019년 6월 25일 (화) 오전 10:57, Charlie Perkins
>             <[e-mail]
>             <mailto:[e-mail]>>님이 작성:
>
>                 Hello Paul and all,
>
>
>                 I will attempt to review the draft later this week.
>
>
>                 Regards,
>                 Charlie P.
>
>                 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                 *From:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <[e-mail]
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                 *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2019 6:55:25 PM
>                 *To:* CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO
>                 *Cc:* Charles E. Perkins; Russ Housley;
>                 [e-mail]
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>; Sri Gundavelli;
>                 Jaehoon Paul Jeong
>                 *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] I-D Action:
>                 draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09.txt
>                 Hi Carlos,
>                 It seems Charlie is busy.
>                 I believe I addressed Charlie's previous comments on
>                 the draft.
>
>                 Could you review and give me yours comments for WGLC
>                 before the IETF-105 meeting?
>
>                 Thanks.
>
>                 Best Regards,
>                 Paul
>
>                 2019년 6월 24일 (월) 오후 12:49, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
>                 <[e-mail]
>                 <mailto:[e-mail]>>님이 작성:
>
>                     Sri,
>                     Okay.
>                     I will not change the text about ND.
>
>                     Let's wait for Charlie's response.
>
>                     Thanks.
>
>                     Best Regards,
>                     Paul
>
>                     2019년 6월 24일 (월) 오후 12:44, Sri Gundavelli
>                     (sgundave) <[e-mail]
>                     <mailto:[e-mail]>>님이 작성:
>
>                         Hi Paul,
>
>                         Ok! Any new text needs to go through the WG
>                         review process. If you can revert ND related
>                         multi-hop text and references that will be
>                         good. Unfortunately, that’s the most
>                         controversial topic and we don’t need to
>                         muddle the waters bringing that discussion
>                         into this. We need to optimize ND and lets
>                         leave it at that level.
>
>
>
>                         Thanks
>                         Sri
>
>
>
>                         From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong"
>                         <[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                         Date: Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:40 PM
>                         To: Sri Gundavelli <[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>>,
>                         "[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>"
>                         <[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                         Cc: Russ Housley <[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>>, CARLOS JESUS
>                         BERNARDOS CANO <[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>>,
>                         "[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>"
>                         <[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>>,
>                         "[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>"
>                         <[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                         Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action:
>                         draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09.txt
>
>                         Hi Sri,
>                         I will remove the solution text and RFC 8505
>                         reference for ND in the revision by focusing
>                         on the problem in Section 5.1 and 5.1.1.
>
>                         Charlie,
>                         Do you have any comments on the current version?
>
>                         To make this draft go forward, we need your
>                         review and comments.
>
>                         Thanks.
>
>                         Best Regards,
>                         Paul
>
>                         2019년 6월 24일 (월) 오후 12:09, Sri Gundavelli
>                         (sgundave) <[e-mail]
>                         <mailto:[e-mail]>>님이 작성:
>
>                             Hi Paul,
>
>                             I have reviewed the –09 version and the
>                             delta from –08.
>
>                             The spec has surely improved and you have
>                             now eliminated bunch of unnecessary text.
>                             This is good and thanks for those
>                             improvements. However, in ND section, I
>                             see lot of new text and RFC 8505
>                             references. I thought the goal here was to
>                             address the comments. Why would we add
>                             next text, scenarios and spec references
>                             at this stage? Specifically, 5.1,  5.1.1.1?
>
>
>                             Sri
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                             From: its <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf
>                             of "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong"
>                             <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                             Date: Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 5:50 PM
>                             To: Charlie Perkins
>                             <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>, Sri
>                             Gundavelli <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                             Cc: "[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>"
>                             <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>,
>                             "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)"
>                             <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>,
>                             "[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>"
>                             <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>, Russ
>                             Housley <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>,
>                             "[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>"
>                             <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>,
>                             CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO
>                             <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>,
>                             "[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>"
>                             <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>                             Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action:
>                             draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09.txt
>
>                             Hi Charlie and Sri,
>                             Could you review the revised draft for
>                             IPWAVE PS and confirm that you are happy
>                             with the revision?
>
>                             https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09
>                             <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247371372&sdata=t2Qt6nCDrxYPfJ6X%2FJ6B%2F5bgTWSTFtwlw7oWeWxgdn8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>                             Your confirmation can allow for the next
>                             step of our PS draft.
>
>                             If you have some places to improve, please
>                             let me know.
>
>                             Thanks.
>
>                             Best Regards,
>                             Paul
>
>                             2019년 5월 25일 (토) 오후 1:29, Mr. Jaehoon
>                             Paul Jeong <[e-mail]
>                             <mailto:[e-mail]>>님이 작성:
>
>                                 Hi IPWAVE WG,
>                                 I have submitted the revision of our
>                                 IPWAVE PS draft:
>                                 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09
>                                 <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247381365&sdata=feYwe8zeWdkkDxy03YW9rXvOH78%2BJdg35e9m0g8SENA%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>                                 According to the request of Sri and
>                                 Russ, this version is focused on
>                                 the problem statement about three key
>                                 aspects of IP-based vehicular networking,
>                                 such as Neighbor Discovery, Mobility
>                                 Management, and Security & Privacy.
>
>                                 For the Neighbor Discovery, I used
>                                 Pascal's text about the problem
>                                 statement about
>                                 the ND at 802.11-OCB.
>                                 Thanks for Pascal's contribution, and
>                                 I acknowledged his contribution in the
>                                 draft.
>
>                                 Carlos,
>                                 Could you review this version and give
>                                 me your comments to move forward
>                                 toward WGLC?
>
>                                 Thanks.
>
>                                 Paul
>
>                                 On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 1:22 PM
>                                 <[e-mail]
>                                 <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>
>                                     A New Internet-Draft is available
>                                     from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>                                     directories.
>                                     This draft is a work item of the
>                                     IP Wireless Access in Vehicular
>                                     Environments WG of the IETF.
>
>                                             Title          : IP
>                                     Wireless Access in Vehicular
>                                     Environments (IPWAVE): Problem
>                                     Statement and Use Cases
>                                     Author   : Jaehoon Paul Jeong (editor)
>                                     Filename   :
>                                     draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09.txt
>                                             Pages          : 28
>                                             Date           : 2019-05-24
>
>                                     Abstract:
>                                        This document discusses the
>                                     problem statement and use cases of IP-
>                                        based vehicular networking for
>                                     Intelligent Transportation Systems
>                                        (ITS).  The main scenarios of
>                                     vehicular communications are vehicle-
>                                        to-vehicle (V2V),
>                                     vehicle-to-infrastructure (V2I),
>                                     and vehicle-to-
>                                        everything (V2X)
>                                     communications. First, this
>                                     document explains use
>                                        cases using V2V, V2I, and V2X
>                                     networking. Next, it makes a problem
>                                        statement about key aspects in
>                                     IP-based vehicular networking, such as
>                                        IPv6 Neighbor Discovery,
>                                     Mobility Management, and Security
>                                     & Privacy.
>                                        For each key aspect, this
>                                     document specifies requirements in
>                                     IP-based
>                                        vehicular networking, and
>                                     suggests the direction of solutions
>                                        satisfying those requirements.
>
>
>                                     The IETF datatracker status page
>                                     for this draft is:
>                                     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking/
>                                     <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247381365&sdata=iGqhfG8zmLA%2FxYqa0mKXmoUpKuCU8Fd%2Bh3ik4rnRpeQ%3D&reserved=0>
>
>                                     There are also htmlized versions
>                                     available at:
>                                     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09
>                                     <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247391355&sdata=E3eK7Ih%2BldyrQ6CAwDnEcDAJLArqtH8CHS0Y2TXCUro%3D&reserved=0>
>                                     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09
>                                     <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247391355&sdata=JX8ZTQi8JIKGTyTCamtDFb3DmCQ1N2kQMy4uwmLvqz8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>                                     A diff from the previous version
>                                     is available at:
>                                     https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09
>                                     <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-09&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247401353&sdata=C%2FpQ5OwKE7Gmfx4LbGQerqqMydYFivG0TQrfFh6jhEw%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>                                     Please note that it may take a
>                                     couple of minutes from the time of
>                                     submission
>                                     until the htmlized version and
>                                     diff are available at
>                                     tools.ietf.org
>                                     <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247401353&sdata=0NiMibRlZKstrEFe%2BiER9V5DQbONNX6AoyHFx3v%2FBPc%3D&reserved=0>.
>
>                                     Internet-Drafts are also available
>                                     by anonymous FTP at:
>                                     ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
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>
>
>                                 -- 
>                                 ===========================
>                                 Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
>                                 Associate Professor
>                                 Department of Software
>                                 Sungkyunkwan University
>                                 Office: [phone]
>                                 Email: [e-mail]
>                                 <mailto:[e-mail]>,
>                                 [e-mail]
>                                 <mailto:[e-mail]>
>                                 Personal Homepage:
>                                 http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
>                                 <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcpslab.skku.edu%2Fpeople-jaehoon-jeong.php&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247411352&sdata=0AmtR%2BQpBROT0zOr7Zqe4MnyK6gV91ZyvTkJqijXIMI%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         -- 
>         Sent from a mobile device, please excuse any brevity or typing
>         errors.
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     ===========================
>     Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
>     Associate Professor
>     Department of Software
>     Sungkyunkwan University
>     Office: [phone]
>     Email: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>,
>     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
>     <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcpslab.skku.edu%2Fpeople-jaehoon-jeong.php&data=02%7C01%7Ccharlie.perkins%40futurewei.com%7Cb4309165c9244f0980d908d70073eee2%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C636978370247421344&sdata=g9ipx1piwjxrV5Kmir378tHB2TmzwR3MARk%2B0F9n79g%3D&reserved=0>
>