Re: [ipwave] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31.txt

Hi,

Caveat: I know nothing about Neighbor Discovery protocol.

I see this in the proposed new text:

Due to lack of link-layer acknowledgements in 802.11-OCB, we can expect
higher packet loss than for 802.11 BSS.

I don't understand why it is expected that OCB has a lack of link-layer
acknowledgments.  OCB uses link layer acks the same way as 802.11 BSS uses
them.   If I send a unicast 802.11 packet outside the context of a BSS, I
expect an 802.11 ACK. If I don't get the 802.11 ACK, I go through
exponential backoff and retransmit.  Just like normal 802.11.  Maybe I'm
missing something.

Best Regards,
John

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 7:11 AM Alexandre Petrescu <
alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Le 04/12/2018 à 16:04, Dorothy Stanley a écrit :
> > Hello Alexandre, all,
> >
> > I am sharing the following information from John Kenny (
> > jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com <mailto:jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com>), who is
> > actively involved in 802.11p implementation and deployments: "OCB can
> > use unicast in the same way as other flavors of 802.11 ( individually
> > addressed 802.11 MAC PDU that is ACKed using 802.11 procedures ). I
> > find this is a common misunderstanding (indeed, I am in a meeting
> > right now where this very point came up about 20 minutes ago).
> > Probably the confusion is partly due to the fact that a great deal of
> > DSRC attention is focused on the broadcast Basic Safety Message. Some
> > people think that DSRC is only BSMs, or only broadcast messages. But,
> > there are some important unicast applications as well."
> >
> > Thus a change is needed in 4.7, either delete the second sentence or
> >  modify to reflect that unicast is acknowledged.
>
> I propose
>
> NEW:
> > The Neighbor Discovery protocol (ND) [RFC4861] is used over
> > 802.11-OCB links.  Due to lack of link-layer acknowledgements in
> > 802.11-OCB, we can expect higher packet loss than for 802.11 BSS. The
> > ND retransmissions are supposed to handle loss of IP unicast and/or
> > IP multicast just as it does for other link types.
>
> (remark disappeared 'unicast' and 'multicast' from 2nd phrase, and added
> 'IP' in front of unicast and multicast in 3rd phrase).
>
> OLD:
> > The Neighbor Discovery protocol (ND) [RFC4861] is used over
> > 802.11-OCB links.  Due to lack of link-layer acknowledgements in
> > 802.11-OCB for both unicast and multicast, we can expect higher
> > unicast loss than for 802.11 BSS.  The ND retransmissions are
> > supposed to handle loss of unicast and/or multicast just as it does
> > for other link types.
>
> Would this be agreed by John Kenney.
>
> Alex
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dorothy
> >
> > ---------------------- Dorothy Stanley IEEE 802.11 WG Chair,
> > dstanley@ieee.org <mailto:dstanley@ieee.org> Hewlett Packard
> > Enterprise dorothy.stanley@hpe.com
> > <mailto:dstanley@arubanetworks.com> dstanley1389@gmail.com
> > <mailto:dstanley1389@gmail.com> +1 630-363-1389 <tel:630-363-1389>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 10:07 AM Alexandre Petrescu
> > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Hi IPWAVErs,
> >
> > Following the discussion during presentation of the IPv6/OCB slides
> > by Nabil during IPWAVE WG meeting, I have updated the IPv6/OCB
> > draft.
> >
> > This is the ChangeLog:
> >
> > - filled in the section titled "Pseudonym Handling"; - removed a 'MAY
> > NOT' phrase about possibility of having other prefix than the LL on
> > the link between cars; - shortened and improved the paragraph about
> > Mobile IPv6, now with DNAv6; - improved the ND text about ND
> > retransmissions with relationship to packet loss; - changed the title
> > of an appendix from 'EPD' to 'Protocol Layering'; - improved the
> > 'Aspects introduced by OCB' appendix with a few phrases about the
> > channel use and references.
> >
> > This fixes all issues about ND and pseudonym handling.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > -------- Message transféré -------- Sujet : New Version Notification
> >  for draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31.txt Date : Mon, 19 Nov
> > 2018 10:01:52 -0800 De : internet-drafts@ietf.org
> > <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> Pour : Jerome Haerri
> > <Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr <mailto:Jerome.Haerri@eurecom.fr>>,
> > ipwave-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:ipwave-chairs@ietf.org>, Jerome Haerri
> > <jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr <mailto:jerome.haerri@eurecom.fr>>,
> > Alexandre Petrescu <Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr
> > <mailto:Alexandre.Petrescu@cea.fr>>, Alexandre Petrescu
> > <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>>, Nabil
> > Benamar <n.benamar@est.umi.ac.ma <mailto:n.benamar@est.umi.ac.ma>>,
> > Thierry Ernst <thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr
> > <mailto:thierry.ernst@yogoko.fr>>, Jong-Hyouk Lee
> > <jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr <mailto:jonghyouk@smu.ac.kr>>
> >
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31.txt has
> > been successfully submitted by Alexandre Petrescu and posted to the
> > IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:           draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb Revision: 31
> > Title:          Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11
> > Networks operating in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set
> > (IPv6-over-80211-OCB) Document date:  2018-11-19 Group: ipwave Pages:
> > 41 URL:
> >
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31.txt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Status:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Htmlized:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31
> > Htmlized:
> >
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Diff:
> >
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-31
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Abstract: In order to transmit IPv6 packets on IEEE 802.11 networks
> > running outside the context of a basic service set (OCB, earlier
> > "802.11p") there is a need to define a few parameters such as the
> > supported Maximum Transmission Unit size on the 802.11-OCB link, the
> >  header format preceding the IPv6 header, the Type value within it,
> > and others.  This document describes these parameters for IPv6 and
> > IEEE 802.11-OCB networks; it portrays the layering of IPv6 on
> > 802.11-OCB similarly to other known 802.11 and Ethernet layers - by
> > using an Ethernet Adaptation Layer.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> > tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org>.
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
> >
> > _______________________________________________ its mailing list
> > its@ietf.org <mailto:its@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> its mailing list
> its@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
>

-- 
John Kenney
Director and Principal Researcher
Toyota InfoTechnology Center, USA
465 Bernardo Avenue
Mountain View, CA 94043
Tel: 650-694-4160. Mobile: 650-224-6644