Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please comment
<karagian@cs.utwente.nl> Thu, 31 October 2013 12:09 UTC
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From: karagian@cs.utwente.nl
To: william.d.ivancic@nasa.gov, dengguangqing@cnnic.cn
Thread-Topic: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please comment
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Subject: Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please comment
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Hi Will, Hi Guangqing, ICN can be considered as a possible option, but I agree with Guangqing that it cannot solve all the mentioned challenges. Regarding the definition of Internet-wide Geo-networking, problem statement, use cases, requirements, challenges to be solved by IETF and possible solutions please look at: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-karagiannis-problem-statement-geonetworking-00.txt Best regards, Georgios From: its-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0) Sent: donderdag 31 oktober 2013 4:45 To: Guangqing Deng Cc: its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please comment Can I consider that there may be more than one way to realize the so-called Internet-wide Geo-Networking and ICN is one possible approach? Or there are multiple kinds of Geo-Networking and ICN just realize one kind? Anyway, ICN must also face the challenges listed by Georgios before, such as Geo-addressing, Geo-routing and updating the location database et al. Are there any mechanisms available within ICN to handle the issues caused by those challenges? I haven't followed ICN closely enough yet to answer. I don't think the have the mechanisms in place, but I think they know they have to be there and may be working some of those solutions. I think some of the items ICN is working is very synergistic to ITS. Event Advertising, weather, and road/traffic conditions seam very ICN related to me. Whereas medical Information between ambulance and hospital may be direct IP and forward vehicle collision warning using manet. Will ________________________________ Guangqing Deng CNNIC From: Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)<mailto:william.d.ivancic@nasa.gov> Date: 2013-10-31 07:44 To: Guangqing Deng<mailto:dengguangqing@cnnic.cn>; karagian@cs.utwente.nl<mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl> CC: its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please comment Depending on what aspects of communication and information transfer a vehicle is engaged in, one may find Information-Centric Networking will solve a lot of problems. ICN also has address binding requirement similar to geo-networking. Those attending IETF next week, may want to peek into the ICNRG activities. Will From: Guangqing Deng <dengguangqing@cnnic.cn<mailto:dengguangqing@cnnic.cn>> Date: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:42 PM To: "karagian@cs.utwente.nl<mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl>" <karagian@cs.utwente.nl<mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl>> Cc: "its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>" <its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>> Subject: Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please comment Hi, Georgios and all, the description and challenge listed below are very helpful for me (as well as others, I think) to understand the so-called Internet-wide Geo-Networking. I am new to ITS WG and think that a clear definition of Internet-wide Geo-Networking helps a lot. And in my opinion, ITS WG maybe needs to give a definition for Internet-wide Geo-Networking, if such definition is not available yet. ________________________________ Guangqing Deng CNNIC From: karagian@cs.utwente.nl<mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl> Date: 2013-10-31 00:29 To: alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com<mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please comment Hi Alex, What I miss form this charter description are: (1) the Internet-wide Geonetworking description and (2) the challenges associated internet-wide geonetworking that can be addressed by IETF. Description: Internet-wide Geo-Networking is a location-aware forwarding protocol that provides packet routing using geographical positions for packet transport over the Internet. Vehicular networking can be considered as one of the most important enabling technologies required to implement a myriad of applications related to vehicles, vehicle traffic, drivers, passengers and pedestrians.” The challenges associated with Internet-wide Geonetworking that can be addressed by IETF are: => Geo-addressing in the wired Internet: standard Internet routers are not aware of geo-networking functionality: used addresses must be regular addresses that route to / via the first geo-aware access router, e.g., RSU => Geo-routing forwarding from source node to the right first geo-aware access router, e.g., RSU, (over the standard Internet) => Exchanging destination area information: destination area specification needs to be exchanged at this first geo-aware access router => Lookup and translation of destination (geographical) area to IP address => Updating the location database Best regards, Georgios ________________________________ Van:its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org> [its-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org>] namens Alexandru Petrescu [alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com<mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>] Verzonden: woensdag 30 oktober 2013 16:51 To: its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> Onderwerp: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please comment Hello ITSers, Please see below the Charter proposal for GeoNet/ITS. Please comment. Alex GeoNet/ITS BoF at IETF Charter Proposal October 30th, 2013 http://ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its Internet-Wide GeoNetworking for Vehicular Communications (GeoNet/ITS) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Current Status: BoF Chairs: Margaret Wasserman Alexandru Petrescu Assigned Area Director: Ted Lemon Mailing list Address: its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/its/current/maillist.html Additional web page, old http://www.lara.prd.fr/ietf-its Draft Charter Proposal: Context ------- The group is concerned with Internet-wide geonetworking for vehicular communications. Achieving full penetration of Internet to mobile vehicular platforms can only be realized in a geographical-aware manner. The vehicular platforms include: IP devices embedded in vehicles, such as ruggedized units, IP-CAN gateways, sensors; mobile devices carried by passengers; and fixed infrastructure units such as Internet-enabled or non-Internet road-side units, electrical charging stations, geo-broadcasting units. The IP devices within a vehicle form an on-board IP network - likely Ethernet - exhibiting a relatively stable structure. On another hand, the mobile vehicles and the fixed units may be stringed together and further connected to the Internet by means of generic radio-WANs such as cellular 4G, and of dedicated radio-LANs specific to vehicular communications such as IEEE 802.11p. Contrary to the stability of individual on-board networks, the cellular and 802.11p links form more volatile IP topologies as the vehicles move, and they have lower capacity and higher noise than customary Ethernet and similar wired links. The use-cases are numerous. They relate to vehicular traffic efficiency, traffic safety and to a lesser extent to on-board infotainment and diagnostic-over-IP (DoIP). An ability is needed to disseminate IP packets to areas delimited by precise geographic coordinates. For example, a forward collision warning should be sent to all vehicles on incoming lanes of same direction, but it is worthless for the outgoing or on the reverse direction. Another example is an instrumented ambulance connected to the Internet; it moves through a traffic jam and may signal its heading by multicasting IP packets over IEEE 802.11p direct links within a range of a limited radius; it also sends data about patient condition to the hospital-based crew to ready the appropriate care units. Event advertising to vehicles passing near a museum, and remote diagnostic of a localized damaged vehicle are other related use-cases. Security aspects will be considered: influence of the absence of link-layer security in the operation outside the context of a BSS (IEEE 802.11p), security of multicast distribution, authenticity of routing message exchanges, and more. The WG will consider and, if necessary - profile, existing IPv6 network protocols: MANET protocols, ICMPv6, MLDv2, DNS. Several Standards Development Organizations external to IETF work towards developing protocols for vehicular communications. In some cases IP protocols are used for transport, in other cases IP protocols are modified for purposes particular to vehicular communications. The WG will survey the following extra-IETF groups: IEEE 802.11 TGp, IEEE P1609, ETSI TC ITS Networking Group, ISO TC204 WG16, GENIVI Network Experts Group, AUTOSAR Work Package A2, IPSO. When possible, liaisons will be established with these organizations. Work Items ---------- Problem statement, use cases, scenarios and requirements of using geonetworking for vehicular communications, as well as Internet-wide geonetworking. Practices and gap analysis for geonetworking for IP vehicular communications: document practices for the deployment of existing IP protocols and identify any limitation of the existing IP protocols to fulfill the scenarios and requirements for geonetworking in IP vehicular communications. The use of IPv6 over 802.11p involving a minimum number of intermediary layers. Milestones: Sep 2013 - Submit individual draft on Internet-wide geonetworking problem statement. (done) Oct 2014 - Submit individual draft on the use of IPv6-over-802.11p link layer. Feb 2014 - Submit individual drafts on Problem Statement, use cases, scenarios and requirements for geonetworking. Jun 2014 - Submit individual drafts on practices and gap analysis. _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 02 - please… Alexandru Petrescu
- [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please com… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please… karagian
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please… Guangqing Deng
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please… Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please… Guangqing Deng
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please… Ivancic, William D. (GRC-RHN0)
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please… karagian
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 00 - please… Eliot Lear
- Re: [its] GeoNet/ITS Charter proposal 02 - please… karagian